V13.55 - Release version?

ChrisW — 2008-08-30 17:39:59

That is a fair point mudcrab - a kind of Chinese whispers effect occurs.

mudcrab — 2008-08-30 17:05:43

Hi Chris & John, could/should the various tips be in a new thread. Seems to be somewhat off topic for this one. I like the info and dialogue just too hard to find later. Cheers

ChrisW — 2008-08-30 16:20:48

Hello John VX can scale the circle according to a point-to-point input along the line. The scale to apply would be "non uniform" to scale it in one direction only, but VX will apply the scale in either X or Y direction. I think you want the ellipse to be formed by stretching the circle along the line. So, VX cannot do that (well, it can, but you would need to perform the scale on a horizontal or vertical line first, then rotate). However, you don't need anything so complex in the first place - there is a ReadySketch ellipse that gives complete parametric control such that you can get a precise size/shape dimensionally, at an angle.

bottlecad — 2008-08-29 13:36:00

Chris, I attached an example VX file. I want to scale the circle at the end of the 30 degree line, along that line in the direction of the line only, which should result in an oval. I have not had time to digest from your earlier example whether this would work in the 3D world. I know that this is not the place for this question and only added it to my previous post as an example of the "little" things that can make a users life easier. To me the 3D world of creation should be just as friendly as the Sketcher world. John

ChrisW — 2008-08-29 12:23:24

Hello John The heart of VX's wireframe creation functionality is really the Sketcher, which is much easier to use for later parametric change. It is true that the wireframe circle commands all need a physical plane. They could be smarter, such as the example you gave - indeed the swept rod command is smarter in that way. Attached is a movie showing scale along a vector in the Sketcher. I don't think the example I use is what you really mean but hopefully it will be enough for you to see how to achieve what you require.

ChrisW — 2008-08-29 07:57:00

The cream does rise to the top quickly in the PCR system, we have an escalation system that, whilst using the statistics from the requests, is flexible enough for the human beings to apply common sense factors too. Customers that attend the VX User Groups do of course tell us how it really is for them, "warts and all". We really do have a handle on what our customers want. As mentioned before, if there is something specific that you need, email your Technical Support contact, they will make sure it gets to VX Corp. Have we delivered everything that customers have requested? No. Can we? No. There are a variety of reasons why. Most obviously, there are more requests than a whole planet of developers could get through. We try to ensure that the ones incorporated are going to be useful to as many customers as possible. Some are good ideas that would make VX much better for a clutch of customers but do not get incorporated because the changes would degrade the software experience for others. There are many considerations. Numbers? About 40% of requests make it into the program. No-one needs to tell us that the worst things about VX are regression bugs and crashes - we know we know we know. Everyone at VX Corp is genuinely passionate about the product -sounds like a cheap statement but it is perfectly true. As I mentioned before elsewhere on the forum, we have improved our quality systems and the checking carried out now can only be described as meticulous. As the "PCR Administrator" I process all of the reports about bugs and enhancement requests (forwarded by resellers on the behalf of their customers and also in-house reports). With regards to the issues reported, I and my colleagues investigate the cause and when possible define a work-around for the customer. If the bug is a regression, it is flagged for the most immediate attention and directly assigned to the most appropriate developer. On the development side of the fence, we can see that our new QA effort is bearing fruit. I think it will take a bit longer for customers to "feel" this overall improvement because each customer tends to use only a % of the tools available, no two customers are alike (more on that below) and our fine-toothed comb work is ongoing. In other words, when you receive v13.65, it will be far better than v13.55 but it still has bugs and some of those unfortunately are regressions. I'm certain that v13.65 is going to crash or hang on you at some time too, though I have been using the test version (the one without the fixes) for weeks now and it is proving to be very robust. So that is the real world in the land of software development. It has been said that CAD-CAM programming is so complex, it is similar to putting man on the moon. Just as well then that our HQ is next door to NASA! I have really enjoyed using v13.65, so for what it's worth, I think you will like it too. What is the difference in QA now that makes me so confident about the reliability gains of the software in the future releases? It sounds horrible, but the fact is that we are now finding more of the bugs than you the customers do. That obviously does not mean that the program is going to be perfected, but it does mean that we are really on top of the quality issues. However, if we were to say "we won't release until all issues are fixed", then we probably would not see a new release for years to come. Compromises have to be made and we make them in what we believe is in the best interests of our customers - and yes, we have got that wrong before and we will get it wrong again no doubt. Do faults still get under the radar and through that fine-tooth comb? Yes they do. We hate it when that happens and new tests are defined to catch anything similar in future versions (before they are released). The biggest cause of problems in software is the nut behind the wheel. When trying their best not to, humans make mistakes. The humans that are there trying to detect mistakes also make mistakes..... One of the greatest challenges for the VX team is down to the success of VX. We wanted it to be useful to as wide a variety of people as possible and it has indeed attracted Users from any field you can think of. You can use VX to tackle practically any design job. It can't beat certain programs that are dedicated to areas of specialism, but even in those cases VX can impress, especially if the User wants to define customized functions (VxDALs). VX has functionality that measures up to high-end CAD but without the extortionate cost. With such a variety of Users and uses, it seems that everyone has a different top priority function. So although Users may not want lots of new functionality (many do actually!), it gets delivered because we try to satisfy as many User requests as we possibly can. The variety of uses also shakes the program down as customers put functionality to the sword, using it to tackle tasks that we didn't even know about. These are areas where many of the enhancement requests come about, and that does mean that everyone receives some extra functionality that is not actually of use to them. Since there is great depth to VX, it is sometimes the case that the capability you need is already there but maybe you can't find it. The forum is a good place to communicate what you think is generally good and what you think is generally bad, that is what the "Raves and Rants" discussion is for. I am not a VX customer. I was going to be before I joined the company instead, but contrary to the opinion of some, that does not mean I don't know what it is like to be a customer, far from it. When I reply to a forum question, I try to give the best information I possibly can. In my view, there is a lot of useful info on this forum, it can be treated a bit like a magazine, a good read during a coffee break (for those that are lucky enough to have time for break anyway). The forum approach might be deemed a bit "ad hoc", but that is often what you need - somewhere to ask a question which perhaps crops-up unexpectedly during the course of your work. You may have a question in an area of expertise that another customer is better placed to answer than any of the VX Corp folk are. You may not know that VX has a command that would make a particular task a lot easier than the method you currently use (possibly because you are doing it the way you had to with your previous software). So, the VX forum is a good haunt, I hope everyone gets the best out of it. If more people take a little bit of time to contribute hints and tips to help each other, that I feel would be constructive and useful.

bottlecad — 2008-08-29 07:09:27

Chris, Thanks for the videos. About the circle. I know VX can create the circle but in each case you are using a "plane". In the first the surface is the plane and the second the view is the plane. Most of these commands use points on some plane that is defined. Most users know a line is the normal to a plane, but in VX that is not enough. There must be some good reason why? It doesn't seem like a big deal to add the ability to use a curve to define a plane without actually creating it or changing the view to suit the creation of a geometry. This need for planes must come from a ProE user, where you end up with more planes and datums than part. I also note that same plane requirement in scaling. I should have noted I wanted to do the scaling in Sketcher. I had some lettering "curves" on an arc and wanted to create a line 30 degrees from center and scale along that line. When I evaluated VX it came up short in a couple of areas. The develpoers added the new functionality I needed in a very short time. Anyone that uses these systems knows that is an almost impossible task with any other software. I had great hopes that VX would continue to improve and become more than all the other software packages I have and do use. I still have those hopes, just not as bright as before. The breaks in functionality because of a new release really force us managers to question the need to update and in my case have stalled implementation. It is akin to buying a new car that only turns left with a maximum speed of 55 mph. We really have no problem creating geometry with VX and have found ways around the limitations we have found. As we have done with every other system we have and why we have so many. My point is it could just be easier and above all it "must" work. You should appreciate that users want to improve the product and sell that fact that you can. John

mudcrab — 2008-08-28 23:19:04

Hi Chris, Handy vids as usual. Thanx. The last few posts are the crux of CAD users cries everywhere. 1) Reliability is king. 2) Simplicity and intuative is queen. 3) Speed and low resource requirement is important - VX does this very well IMO. 3) Users don't want gobs of new features if the 1,2 & 3 are not satisfied. 4) Users need to be heard and know they are heard. IMO this forum does not entirelysatisfy that requirement. I Suggest: A process - starting at the forum would be good - establishing a USER needs/frustrations & wish list based on a significant sample survey. It is highly likely many of the requests/frustrations have existing solutions e.g. the two examples you did for Bottlecad. and provide an opportunity to create the top 20 most required training videos. Perhaps this is already in place??? As PCR manager I am sure it is all clear to you. In 4 years I have never been asked what do I enjoy the most and least about using VX? A pity, as I have seen quantum leaps in likeability for VX in the last few years yet some basic frustrations haven't been addressed in that time. And regressions do bite hard!. Cheers

ChrisW — 2008-08-28 22:58:35

Essentially, we have a User suggestion survey everyday. If any customer has an Enhancement request, please forward it to your Technical Support contact. Every idea forwarded, without exception, is formally logged onto our system and appraised. To date, we have received 1064 unique requests. The most requested enhancements are the ones that find their way into the software first whenever possible.

ChrisW — 2008-08-28 22:28:26

Hello Bottlecad The attached movies show how to draw a 3D Circle of specific radius/diameter and how to scale along a vector. Along with the movie, you will find "tscc.exe" in the zip file. If you find that you cannot play the movie, run this exe once to auto-install the TechSmith movie codec.

bottlecad — 2008-08-28 11:01:12

Cutter, I really agree with most of your statements. I have had VX for almost 3 years and still waiting for a version of 13 that works so I can implement into ou production. I needed some changes to VX to do the modeling and machining I do with my current software. VX was quick to add these new capabilites and everything worked in 12.93. With the release of 13 everything was broken. I can really understand how new capabilties in the software may not work as planned, but the one step forward and two steps back is a killer. I have been involved with Cad/Cam since 1989 with experience in using SDRC, Catia, Icem, Strim, ProE, Anvil and Autocad. I really admire some of the high end capabiliteis of VX for the price point. But most of the basic tasks are much more complicated than any other package I have used. Example: 3D circle on a plane. In other packages pick the center, normal of the plane and input the radius, simple..staight forward. Try that in VX. Tried to scale along a vector and am still trying to find a way in VX. Reading this post I can see many others are waiting for the fixes in 13.65 as am I. I hope to finally go forward with VX. I agree that a users suggestion survey would really be useful. VX would benefit from seeing that more than one user is interested in the an area of change. I know simplification of basic wireframe geometry creation is high on my list. John

cutter — 2008-08-28 10:38:36

Yeah it's me again. This four year comment keeps resonating in my minds eye and I have decided to post something I had earlier not intended to. A, My new seat of Solid Edge will be here today. B, I put my money where my mouth is. I will probably send in one more years maintenance but if VX does not straighten things out for me as a PAYING customer I WILL be gone. 30 years blah blah who cares. This will be my last post on VX forums in all likelyhood as you guys will either fix it or you won't and quite frankly I don't much care any more.

cutter — 2008-08-28 10:14:16

I might point out also that these guye were mostly users of someone elses software too before they used SW

cutter — 2008-08-28 09:57:58

So do these guys and they use it in the actual real world workaday situations to earn a living. Rick [ the VP of Customer Service for Solidworks ] from 8-19-08 posts on "Matt Writes" If a customer pays a parking ticket that dosnt mean he is pleased. It means he had to pay to keep his car. As a user for over 10 years I feel that the subscription service is essential because you never know when you will get hit with a release like 2008. I renewed my subscription and joined this forum for the same reason. I feel that I have another year to see SW turn around and sell good software, or I have a year to poke around and find out what other SW customers are moving to. SW was a great product that I liked so well I pushed it to others. SW ran an add pointing out that a change is a SW model was easy, a change in a Mechanical desktop model caused a crash. That add has been gone a long long time. I think SW customers are reacting to this price increase even when it doesnt effect us because we feel we are being ignored and are not getting our moneys worth. Below is a part of a letter I sent to my VAR. If you have people at SW that you can pass this on to I want to tell them that they are trying to hard with the glitz, and not near hard enough with the reliability. I realize that SW is fighting for market share, but us old timers are getting beat up. I like 2006, I like 2007. I like 2008. All have a good enough interface that more is not needed. In other words I dont care about the interface. The interface might save seconds, or it might cost seconds, I dont care. I care about crash. It crashes and crashes and crashes again. The automatic backup doesnt work most of the time. There is no such thing as enough memory any more (I have 4 gig) video is slow. and it crashes. If you called me and said Frank, XXXX is taking on a new line, It only has 75% of the features of SW but it is rock solid stable and costs the same I would buy it. Then I would get on the phone and sell 10 more companies for you. In other words. SW is trying very hard to drive us old customers away, and when the next hot product comes along, if it is stable, and XXX will back it up with your excellent tech support, they will be successful. My VAR asked me to wait untill 2009 I told them I would, but I am studdying my options. Frank A DeWitt Do these issues of reliability sound familiar? Users ask each other "how do you like your software?" when there are problems with what they use. Even users with a trivial four years of use do this and their comments command respect in the user community just the same as 30 year users as the 30 year guys know there are problems too. When they are happy they are bragging about what it does and showing off to each other and your potential new customers how much better their stuff is than "brand X" is. Solidworks users are now having these discussions. I have these same discussions with VX users. I am really trying to put the heat on VX to shape up before it is to late by demonstrating that these reliability issues are not unique to VX, and that user rejection of software that has problems, and the companies that write the stuff do not fix them, is inevitable over time. In this series of posts is mentioned more than once the idea of user surveys to see what bothers actual users and so far, like my suggestions more than once to VX, they are met with total silence. A good sales team will get a company new customers, but solid releases keep them. Your opinion of VX is irrelevant to users Chris because you are not a subsciber. I am and you should remember this and quit being so condescending and defensive.

ChrisW — 2008-08-27 17:28:34

As one of the first ever Users of CAD in the UK and with 30 years experience, I do know a bit about CAD-CAM software Ultimately, what SE have on offer is a twist on methods used by other applications, past and present. Like all programs, it has both good and bad points. The CAD-CAM market is huge and still growing, so there will continue to be a diversity of solutions available, and that is good for everyone. Claiming an "industry first" should in my view be done with greater caution. This is the same app that made similar claims in 2005 about a capability that VX had from day one! Nevertheless, we are not interested in a "slanging match" with competitors, most of whom do have very good products. We believe that VX is different from the norm, offered at a very competitive price to deliver real value for money. Many VX customers used a competitor's product in the past, which says a lot about the overall capability of VX, proven day-in day-out on real projects.

cutter — 2008-08-27 13:47:14

Hi Chris, thinking about what you said re "seasoned cad users". Don't suppose I am one as I have only been involved for four years but I do know enough to see what I am shown in person to be reality. But it is some serious heavy hitters with actual realworld user knowledge of other programs and who have been in the industry for some years that directed my attention elsewhere and as long term users they command my respect. And actually yes it is true, they are excited, and no there has never been an implementation in this exact fashion before. You really should look before you leap I dare say. I hope VX does do some of these things and others soon. Very soon.

ChrisW — 2008-08-24 15:45:00

The XML output is in the v13.65 under test, but there may not be enough time for it to be included in the full release. The target date for v13.7x can be allocated once v13.65 is ready to go - we will know then the amount of extra work carried over from v13.65. Mike might have been referring to the Marathon, so you have done well to complete two laps mudcrab I think team GB have worked out the easiest way to win gold - They won most of their events sitting on their backsides!

mudcrab — 2008-08-22 15:05:33

Hi Mike, I'm up to a lap (or 2) around the Beijing track - Q. Is VX undertaking to pay the airfare? So when is 13.70 due? Cheers from Downunder - a day and sometimes a month ahead!!!

LynchMikeVX — 2008-08-22 10:45:56

This is why I hate to make guesses about when the product will release. The latest info I have is that it will still be released in the month of August. I know, I know, there is only a week left. Well that is a good thing. Check back next week. And the next person that asks when 13.65 will be released will have to run a lap around track in Beijing. BTW - The Customize XML Output is in 13.65 at the bottom of the OUTPUT > Documentation tab.

ChrisW — 2008-08-20 10:02:39

Hi cutter We don't really want to reveal future VX technology too soon. Like many, our industry is highly competitive and the big fish are happy to copy VX innovation. I don't like to spend time knocking competitors, but as most seasoned CAD Users will be quick to notice, the "industry first" being claimed for SE Synchronous Technology simply is not true. For mechanical engineering, mould tool design and similar disciplines, history management is by far the most efficient system. However, we believe that a future VX is going to let you have your cake and eat it......

cutter — 2008-08-20 09:19:08

Does anyone know if there will be any features similar to the Synchronous technology SE has in future VX releases? From what I have seen in person it looks very powerfull and would like to see something like it here.

ChrisW — 2008-08-19 17:14:56

Hello mudcrab All will be revealed in September For those that did not hear about VX Show-n-Tell": http://www.vx.com/printrelease.cfm?PressID=156&LangID=us

mudcrab — 2008-08-19 15:21:49

Show-n-tell eh? Does this require a copy of VX or can they be run independently? Can VX makes it's own SnT's? Which version does it start in? Cheers

ChrisW — 2008-08-18 14:21:55

Hello Nick That tool has been coded and submitted for v13.65, but there is a possibility that it will not be ready for release (failed QA). If it does not make it into v13.65, it should be ready for a subsequent v13 release.

scallopz — 2008-08-18 10:45:45

Hi Chris, I had an email from our Vx reseller (matt@vertexllc.com) who stated that version 13.65 would have customizable setup sheets. Is that still the case, I hope? thanks, Nick.

ChrisW — 2008-08-16 06:16:17

Hello Chaps v13.65 is still in the QA process. A lot of fixes have gone into it. Certain elements require further work, much of which is going into v13.65 before it is released. Further v13 bug-fixing releases will follow.

cutter — 2008-08-16 04:58:48

Yes it is and hope springs eternal that things are fixed this time.

scallopz — 2008-08-15 08:53:10

Hi, It's the Ides of August -- awfully quiet out there. Here's hoping for version 13.65. Nick.

ChrisW — 2008-08-05 20:00:44

Hello mudcrab It is necessary to use the explode tool (Edit/Explode). Don't forget to undo the explode after the export is performed.

mudcrab — 2008-08-05 19:28:21

Hi Chris, I appreciate your honesty. Machining symbols do not export to DXF in V13.65 - If that remains the case, then it is extremely dissapointing as it is vital information on a drawing. Is there an alternative or work around that ensures something suitable IS exported? Any workable suggestions greatly appreciated. Cheers

ChrisW — 2008-08-05 05:33:45

...not in any shape or form.

mudcrab — 2008-08-05 00:38:31

Not sure of your connections upstairs Chris, but Impossible is 'perhaps' more accurate re the 01/08/08!. Or is this a parametric date? Do machine symbols get exported? (DXF) Cheers Paul

ChrisW — 2008-08-04 17:13:32

v13.65 is currently in QA testing, being Assessed for Release. How well the version performs in the testing will ultimately determine when it can be released, but v13.65 will not be the last v13, it will continue to be improved. I cannot give you a fixed date, clearly the 1st of August might be difficult What I can tell you is that I'm using it daily and it is looking very robust. Of particular interest to me was how many Autodesk translator fixes have been incorporated, and the answer is "many".

mudcrab — 2008-08-04 15:38:57

Hi Mike, how's the release date for 13.65 looking? This part of the world 1st August has been and gone.... Cheers Paul

LynchMikeVX — 2008-07-08 07:44:17

If you have not downloaded 13.55 this would be a good time to do it. 13.60 has been pulled off the shelf. We were working on a fix that was a little tougher than we expected. Instead of releasing it without proper testing the decision was made to make our next release 13.65. The anticipated release date is August first.

LynchMikeVX — 2008-06-06 13:02:46

Sorry guys, I have been on a vacation of sorts. If you have not downloaded 13.55 at this point it would not be prudent to do so because 13.60 is immenent. We are trying to get back on schedule.

mudcrab — 2008-05-22 14:41:33

Hi Chris, on that basis, the test is OK. It has managed to make it to NZ, does it have to go any further this planet? Re the cricket score. Damm. I guess that leaves me stumped. Here's the score as I see it. V13.44 full rar. 168Mb V13.50 full rar 192Mb V13.55 full rar237Mb Looks to me like the runs are ticking along at a good ol' rate which sort of goes to show it aint good to congratulate software people about how small their software is! Or their hardware for that matter. Better crawl back under the log now. Cheers

ChrisW — 2008-05-22 05:41:54

There is a delay between when a release can be seen on the page and when it is officially ready. That's because we like to test the download and install process first. So, it isn't ready unless Mike Lynch says so and anyone that downloads the files too early will bring bad luck upon their Test Cricket team.......