CAD/CAM discussion forum > 3D CAD/CAM > Creating Gate and Runners in Molds

Creating Gate and Runners in Molds

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John

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Registered: 2004-10-14

Message 1 of 22

 Creating Gate and Runners in Molds
15-10-2004 05:39 . pm | View his/her posts only
I'm new to both VX and mold design, so perhaps I missing something here. Are there tools in VX Mold & Die to help create the runners and gates for my molds?

If not, what's a good method for creating these? Do I need to create a part that takes my plastic part and adds the gates and runners by simply creating objects? And then make cores and cavities from these?

Thanks,
-- John

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 2 of 22

17-10-2004 04:40 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi John

VX does not have specific commands to produce gates and runners, everything you need is easy to define with the general solid modeling tools. The approach really depends on the item in hand. I would recommend that you have a seperate Part Object as the "target" mould tool preparation object for the mould (create the new Part Object, then use "insert component" to bring an instance of the model in. Use "merge component" to change this into workable geometry). This object will be scaled to allow for shrinkage, it's orientation adjusted to suit the mould, then arrayed (patterned) if the tool is multi-cavity. The runners can be quickly produced, just draw their centerlines in a Sketch, then use the Solid Primative "rod" command, selecting the Sketch curves as prompted.

So, your file will consist of a number of objects. If the geometry originates from elsewhere, Create a Part Object for the import, leaving the data as-is, and a further object for Import Data repair:

01_Imported_Geom
02_Geom_Repair
03_Design_Object (Native VX or requested mods of imported geom)
04_Tool_Prep_Object
05_Core_Cavity_Geom
06_Mould_Assembly



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John

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Message 3 of 22

17-10-2004 10:23 . pm | View his/her posts only
Thanks! That's what I needed to know.

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ChrisWard2k2

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Message 4 of 22

19-10-2004 03:44 . am | View his/her posts only
Check out the downloads library, there are some free Mold Tool programs to make life even easier. Free Downloads

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Robert

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Message 5 of 22

19-10-2004 03:40 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi John,

We were planning on adding runner functionality in releases 11 and 12. Can you describe what you're looking for?

thanks,

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John

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Message 6 of 22

28-10-2004 01:29 . am | View his/her posts only
I didn't have anything specific in mind. I just thought I remember hearing that there was support for creating the runners in VX. Since I'm new to mold design, I can't really offer much in the way of suggestions. I guess the standard round runners as an object would be nice. I'd like to be able to bend them around a corner and also attach gates to them easily. Hope that helps.

-- John

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 7 of 22

28-10-2004 04:12 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi John


<DIV>Yes, this area of mold design is pretty big too, not forgetting hot runners and injection point sprues. I'm not sure if, in the real world, wizard - style functions are necessarily a "good thing" for all since everybody has different requirements. What you can do if you always design runners the same way for similar sized tools of similar "class", is to re-cycle the geometry by making a parametric library or template file that be used again and again.

Traditionally, mold toolmakers have only partially designed their solution in 3D and then defined the rest in 2D. I think there is much to be gained in defining all of the tool in 3D. Effectively, VX's automatic 2D layout does 95% of the 2D work for you. It is very easy to make mistakes when designing in 2D. In 3D, you can test mechanism motion, verify volume, experiment with different solutions and very importantly you can analyze to ensure that the component can be extracted from the mold. Not forgetting those last minute changes your customer announces when metal is already being cut..........</DIV>

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Pat

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Registered: 2004-8-5

Message 8 of 22

14-11-2004 11:21 . am | View his/her posts only
John,

We have been using VX for mold design for a year or so, and draw all of the runners and gates as one inserted component. That way, we can modify it as needed, copy it as assembly geometry when editing the various parts of the mold assembly, then remove it from the active part. When we need to move or modify runners and gates (as we just had to) we merely change the runners/gates part and regenerate the other affected parts.

Hope this helps.

Pat

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Mirko

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Registered: 2004-6-26

Message 9 of 22

16-11-2004 01:22 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi Bobf4fun,

I concur that wizards are not necassarily the way to go as generally wizards attempt to be all things to all people. However, a whole lot of functionality can be achieved in the addressing of typically very monotonous gate / runner design. We can surely generate a whole boat load of suggestions for runner / gate design. If you consider the way your cooling channel functionality works, apart from the fact that a runner disects a split line, this is reasonably close to the way a runner should work barring a few exceptions. Typically these would be the ability to:

1) defined a complete runner layout including directional changes etc prior to execution. This would include runner hops over split lines, directional change fillets etc.
2) define change in runner diameter / cross sections at various points in the layout.
3) define "flexible" gate profiles that are common in the industry. (Probably no more that 4 or 5 shapes)
4) define runner ends in terms of extended cold wells.
5) if you couple to this an ability to measure runners length / cross-section over selected points Wow, immediate pressure drop data vailable for calculation.

Hot runners etc are not an issue I believe as most of those things are catalog driven, but get this type of functionality going and we really will be cooking.

Tappie

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Kevin

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Registered: 2004-4-26

Message 10 of 22

16-11-2004 04:42 . am | View his/her posts only
This is a bit OT but given the customer base of VX is there not a case for generating something akin to the SolidWorks Manufacturing Network. I'm sure there are a lot of designers and manufacturers looking for RP bureau, tool and mould makers who use VX. How about it?

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 11 of 22

13-01-2005 08:06 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi Kevin

we are working on a web-based project that is not specifically for that, but will deliver the desired information and contacts.

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 12 of 22

16-01-2005 06:03 . pm | View his/her posts only
Chris,
How about making a macro for us Moldmakers that would make the required holes for ejector pins? It would start out by choosing a single, or multiple pins. Then choosing the ejector pin retainer plate. The B holder block, and then the B inserts. With an option for "in the solid" B plates(no holderblock, all detail is actually in the main B plate). And, if possible, cut the ejector pins to the detail. If you'd like a more detail explaination, I'd be happy to lay something out. I've not become well enough versed in VX's macros, or I'd do it myself.

Maybe I should unshelf VB and play around with it myself

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 13 of 22

16-01-2005 06:45 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi Steve


Good timing, I have just been asked by Bob Fischer to take a look at producing a program to automate this type of thing for mold. There are various standard components that essentially require the same methods of placement, level of interactivity, and code. There are of course a number of things to be considered and your brief description omits many of them

I would like to define something that is easy to use and flexible enough to work with geometry the way the User likes to manage it, with some sound knowledge-based background calcs too, to ensure feasibility of engineering (Edge distances, thread depths, counterbore landings etc., may be proximity checking too) and to indicate the optimum standard part choice when more than one solution exists. I also think that it would be nice if, when starting-off trying to use a standard part, we could switch to a bespoke User-defined part based on the standard one when necessary, "on the fly".

So, I appreciate your offer to layout a spec for ejector pins, thank you, and look forward to seeing it

OT, wasn't it you that wanted to create a User plane from the current screen view? I have just uploaded a new program, FineView, that will create such a plane in one click.

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 14 of 22

16-01-2005 07:19 . pm | View his/her posts only
Thanks for the speedy reply. Especially on a Sunday. I thought I was the only one who worked Sundays
But anyways, gimme a few days to make some forms and such that would relate to ejector pin "cuts" and clearances. I'm not positive that what *I* want is entirely possible, but I've seen you do some miracles, so I'll sketch it up, and you tell me if it's possible If I make up the forms in VB, would you like those? Or just screen shots?

On another topic:
I think there is a 'lil bug in your macro that puts a workplane center of an object. It doesn't always work to the center of an object. If I'm following your macro right, you're attempting to place the workplane, at the center of gravity, which isn't always dimensionally centered on the selected part. But I have an idea how it COULD do one center of an object

How about creating a "stock" object 1st. and make the workplane center of the "stock"? The way, no matter how complex the shape, it would always come out center? Would that work? With an option to place the workplane center X&Y and top or bottom of the block?


Thanks in advance!!!


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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 15 of 22

17-01-2005 08:41 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi Steve

No need to design forms in VB for me, hand drawn and scanned-in or any method of getting the needs of the interface across is fine. I have had input already from other people and everybody has a different view of how the interface should look . Of greatest interest is a list of things the program should do, things that "it would be nice if" and things that it should not do (crash, core, I know I know!).

Regarding the CofG plane program, yes, that does go to the CofG. I think your idea to place a plane truely at an object center by using the stock command is an excellent idea. I will upgrade the program asap.

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 16 of 22

17-01-2005 05:24 . pm | View his/her posts only
I'll getcha something tonight after I get home, I'll sketch something up. Will a scanned in crayon doodled on a napkin work?

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 17 of 22

17-01-2005 08:36 . pm | View his/her posts only

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 18 of 22

18-01-2005 08:25 . am | View his/her posts only
Here ya go!
This SHOULD be pretty self explainatory.
Now, it should be pretty flexible, because there are times that there is no EJ holderblock, and most of the time, there is no Ejector support plate.

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 19 of 22

18-01-2005 08:31 . am | View his/her posts only
Woops! Forgot one. There should be a chamfer dimension between the ej-pin head, and the body.

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 20 of 22

18-01-2005 08:33 . am | View his/her posts only
Oh, also, if you'd like me to beta test this little macro of yours, I'd be happy to
just send me an email to: mackay.steve@gmail.com

Thanks!!

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ChrisWard2k2

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posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 21 of 22

18-01-2005 08:56 . am | View his/her posts only
That was quick! Remarkably thin crayons..........

Thanks Steve

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 22 of 22

18-01-2005 09:02 . am | View his/her posts only
Yeah, well, my 3 year old wouldn't share his crayons with me, or I would have had something last night


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