CAD software discussion forum > 3D CAD/CAM > Draw problem with 10.91

Draw problem with 10.91

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John

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Registered: 2004-10-14

Message 1 of 28

 Draw problem with 10.91
07-04-2005 02:58 . am | View his/her posts only
I just upgrade from version 10.21 to version 10.91 and I'm running into some really strange problems. I generally work in inches and often work on parts that are about 1/4" in size or less. With 10.21 this wasn't a problem. However, with version 10.91, whenever I zoom in too far, the dynamic cues of where the cursor is (point with a box around it) during drawing don't show up anymore. As soon as I zoom out, they start to show up again. Also, it seems like I have to logout and back in (I'm using Windows XP prog) sometimes before it starts to work again. Any ideas? It's driving me nuts! Especially because I saved the file and now can't go back to using 10.21 because the file format changed. Grump.

I just did some more testing with this. I installed 10.81, and it exhibits the same problem. When the distance in the lower-left corner reads 1.4, I have no problems. But when it reads 1.2 and below, I don't get feedback following the cursor anymore.

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ChrisWard2k2

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posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 2 of 28

07-04-2005 05:36 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi John

Sorry you are having what is obviously a really irritating problem. I am going to suggest a couple of things below, which you might well have done in v10.21 and forgotten about them, but to help you more we actually need a more precise description of the fault.

1) Where do you get this problem, in Model Space, Sketcher, 2D Layout?

2) Are you using a Spaceball device?

3) Do things improve if Display Shade is switched off for Model Space/Sketcher?


In UtilitiesConfigurationDisplay, there are some things you can try:

a) Toggle the Software OpenGL driver (off by default, try switching it on)

b) Pick Aperture Size - try increasing this to Large.

c) 3D Input Device: If you don't have a Spaceball, set this to None.

The point in square cursor is seen when you traverse the 3D Model from within the Sketcher (i.e. 3D view rather than true to Sketch Plane). I have run a test on my system, with a very tiny Part Object (0.03 x 0.03), v10.91. To zoom-in, my view extents go down to .04 inches and everything is fine (can see the cursor square), as long as I have Display Shade switched off. With Display Shade on, I don't see the cursor square and I don't see the dynamic preview of the lines I am drawing.

Hope this helps John. If it does not help, the next port of call will be your graphics card and driver info. Let us know how you get on.

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John

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Registered: 2004-10-14

Message 3 of 28

07-04-2005 11:42 . am | View his/her posts only
Thank you!!!! I was having the problem in the Sketcher. I don't have a Spaceball, and I had already set the 3D input device to None. As soon as I turned Display Shade off in the sketcher, everything started to work again. I probably did make this change in 10.21, but that wa a while ago.

I also tried turning on the software OpenGL driver to see if that would make a difference. It behaved the same as the hardware driver. In other words, with Display Shade turned on, I don't see the point in square feedback.

The Pick Aperture Size was already set to Large, by the way.

I think this is something I found by trial-and-error in 10.21, but that was such a long time ago that I forgot. Thanks again for your help.

-- John

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Mike

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Registered: 2002-8-28

Message 4 of 28

08-04-2005 08:43 . am | View his/her posts only
John,

I'm glad you two were able to solve the issue. Apparently in shaded mode and zoomed in as far as you were the (point with a box) can't display. I found that when the zoom extents readout in the lower left corner of the screen gets any smaller than about 2.0 (That means the height of the screen is about 2 units) the (point in box) becomes a crosshair and you also lose the "auto constraint display".

You said it didn't make any difference if the hardware or software was driving the display, but just out of curiosity what graphics card do you have?
Mine is an NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX 100/200.............very old and cheap.

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John

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Registered: 2004-10-14

Message 5 of 28

08-04-2005 06:27 . pm | View his/her posts only
I have an ATI Radeon 9600, which supports my 1920 x 1200 pixel LCD screen.

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Paul

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posts: 262

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 6 of 28

17-04-2005 07:09 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi Mike and Chris,
this one just solved the problem I was having.
Now to remember it!
Thanks Guys.

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 262

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 7 of 28

18-04-2005 01:40 . am | View his/her posts only
Seems I spoke too soon. How often does that happen?
This loosing the cursor and preview in shaded mode whilst sketching (or any time for that matter) is turning into a real monster.
I have had it happen with 99mm view extent and less of course. So now the issue is not just at ZOOM (for what ever difference that should make) but can occur at random view limits? Very unusual behaviour.

I absolutely need to be able to draw in shaded mode once I have started modelling. This needs resolving URGENTLY from where I sit. The worlds best hybrid modeller does not need the invisible modeller option!

Unless of course there is a really sweet alt. work around no ones mentioned yet - (thought I'd better cover some bases) and a great logical reason for it to exist. Chris?

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ChrisWard2k2

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posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 8 of 28

18-04-2005 11:00 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi Paul

Sorry to hear that you are also getting these problems. your first course of action would be to try the Software OpenGL setting.

To shade in Sketcher Mode or not to shade, that is the question. I personally prefer not to shade most of the time, but I am probably in the minority.

Tell us about your hardware config:-

1) Exact Make & Model of graphics card

2) Card driver version

3) OpenGL version supported

4) Screen resolution

5) Colour Quality (Depth)

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Paul

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posts: 262

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 9 of 28

19-04-2005 06:30 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi Chris,
FYI - Quadro FX1000, Driver: NVIDIA Forceware XP2K Ver:71.84, Resolution 1280 x 1024. 32bit colour. 85Hz refresh.
Supports Direct X 4.09.00.0904 (Direct X 9) Open GL 1.5 as far as I can tell.
I have all the latest drivers for everything else as I 've had issues with all sorts as result of Microsofts' constant tweaking of the OS. In other words all the latest bugs.

If you're listening Mike, I had a card like yours. Change to something decent. It's worth it. (until this Shade On/Of thing of course)

Hope this helps.

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ChrisWard2k2

Newbie

posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 10 of 28

19-04-2005 07:34 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi Paul

Thank you for your spec. By the way, is that particular card made by Nvidia themselves or another manufacturer?

I have only recently installed the exact same ForceWare driver v71.84 on my desktop box (the driver has not been out for very long). So far, I can say that late versions of VX are not so happy with it on my PC, but I am not yet sure why (ForceWare does of course deliver several settings that can be tweaked). There is a potential problem with Nvidia and OpenGL, I am suspicious of their "one driver fits all" approach - I wrote to their OpenGL guru to ask how an OpenGL v1.5/2.1 driver works on an Nvidia Card originally defined for v1.1, and also how does one verify the version of OpenGL that is actually being used. Never got a response unfortunately.



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Paul

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posts: 262

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 11 of 28

22-04-2005 03:01 . am | View his/her posts only
Hmmmmmmm......

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 12 of 28

22-04-2005 01:14 . pm | View his/her posts only
So far as I can tell, all of the Nvidia driver options are focused on DirectX and not OpenGL. The dll seems to suggest that v1.5 is supported but the truth is that Nvidia supply very little info.

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Mike

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Registered: 2002-8-28

Message 13 of 28

04-05-2005 03:30 . pm | View his/her posts only
Gentlemen,

The problem we are having with the preview not showing in the sketcher in shaded mode is not a graphics card issue. In fact the problem is fixed. Look for it on the very next CD or download version.

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John

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Registered: 2004-10-14

Message 14 of 28

11-06-2005 01:55 . pm | View his/her posts only
I need to get a graphics card that better supports VX and wonder what my options are. I'm currently running an ATI Radeon 9600 and here are the problems I have with this card:

1. No shaded preview of commands like extrude.

2. When I use the Drag Component constaint in shaded mode, I don't get a shaded preview. If I set the interference to Stop at, I get a bunch of wireframe trails that obscure the entire area. In other words, this command is basically useless with my graphics card (it works just fine on my laptop, though).

I need a graphics card that will support DVI at 1920 by 1200 for my display. I've looked at the various graphics cards out there and it's pretty clear that I can't tell without trying a card weather or not the OpenGL support is up to the standards that VX needs.

Any suggestions?

-- John

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ChrisWard2k2

Newbie

posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 15 of 28

13-06-2005 11:15 . am | View his/her posts only
Hello John

Certainly, the graphics card market it a bit of a minefield at the moment. However, both Nvidia and ATI have felt the "wrath of Microsoft" recently over the quality of their drivers, so let's hope some issues get sorted quickly. Each of the (leading) card manufacturers do however give details on their support for DirectX and OpenGL. They are dependent on the graphics driver, and since most cards are based around the Nvidia chip (the board is designed to an Nvidia template too), most have a good OpenGL spec (Nvidia generally claiming v2 for their driver). The difference between the low-end and mid-range cards is usually that the low-end only supports an OpenGL subset for games. VX requires full OpenGL support. When a manufacturer's card does support full OpenGL, they shout it from the roof tops!


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Mike

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Registered: 2002-8-28

Message 16 of 28

13-06-2005 11:16 . am | View his/her posts only
John,

According to our "System Requirements" NVIDIA cards are preferred and the shaded preview is why. We don't consider the lack of shaded preview a bug, rather it is one of those bells and whistles you hear about. Those who have never seen it don't miss it.

I sent out a survey to US customers in April and there is not one graphics card that sticks out as an overwelming favorite. But NVIDIA cards out weigh ATI about 100 to 1.
There are some ATI cards that do provide a shaded preview. ...................I had the impression the ATI Radeon 9600 did give a shaded preview..........you responded to my survey and didn't state any problem with shaded preview.

Anyway, the issue that opened this thread is fixed in 11.2. look for its release soon.

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John

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Registered: 2004-10-14

Message 17 of 28

13-06-2005 12:47 . pm | View his/her posts only
True, I didn't mention anything about the shaded preview because I didn't know what I was missing until I put VX on my laptop. The real issue, though, was the Drag Component command in the constraints flyout. This is completely unusable with the video card I have (but works fine on my laptop).

I've purchased an NVIDIA card (GeForce 6600GT) and I'll report back the results once I've installed it.

-- John

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 18 of 28

14-06-2005 11:23 . am | View his/her posts only
The 6600GT is a GREAT card for the $.
That's what I have in my workstations.

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ChrisWard2k2

Newbie

posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 19 of 28

15-06-2005 04:53 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi Steve

Great to hear that VX works well with your graphics card. Can you let everybody know the full spec of your particular card (Manufacturer/model number/GPU/driver name and number/gRam/graphics port/OpenGL support) please? There are substantial differences between manufacturers whose card is based on Nvidia's 6600GT GPU.

The graphics card industry is a whirlwind, there must be a new card announced every week. Choosing a card suitable for a professional CAD/CAM system can be a bit of a lottery, especially since the manufacturers are largely interested in one specific group of people - game players!

AGP is clearly going to fade out (pun intended), being replaced by PCI Express (which, if one is upgrading one's own machine, requires a new compatible motherboard).

So, if anybody has the time (I know, I know), please follow Steve's lead and let your fellow VXers know if you have a graphics card you are really happy with.




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John

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Registered: 2004-10-14

Message 20 of 28

15-06-2005 11:33 . am | View his/her posts only
I installed the GeForce 6600GT and it works great, as Steve reported. I can now use the Move constraint! Yes!

I purchased a board made by XFXforce (www.xfxforce.com) at a local store. And it supports my 1920 x 1200 flat panel display. It also supports dual DVI, which is nice for adding a second monitor.

-- John

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 21 of 28

16-06-2005 01:40 . pm | View his/her posts only
Chris,
These are the system specs we are using:

System #1
Dell 4700 P4 3.2 GHZ 2 gig of ram.
160 gig Sata2 Drive
Ordered with base on-board video and 19" analog flat panel monitor for $679 after rebate. Then I ordered this card:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814164038

System #2
Dell 4700 P4 3.2GHZ 2 gig of ram
80 gig Sata2 primary drive
160 gig Sata2 Secondar drive
Again, ordered with base on-board video with 19" analog flat panel for $800 After rebate IIRC. Then I ordered this card:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814130214

Both boxes run VX and PowerShape/PowerMill quite well!



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Robert

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 22 of 28

16-06-2005 05:03 . pm | View his/her posts only
Steve,

Does 2 Gbytes of RAM offer any appreciable difference in speed over say, 1 Gbyte?

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 23 of 28

16-06-2005 05:08 . pm | View his/her posts only
Yup. Especially when working with HUGE models. At times VX, and more often than not, PowerShape will take more than a gig of ram. Once an application needs more than available memory, the hard drives start 'a chuggin' lookin' for virtual memory. That's something I like to avoid, because it's a HUGE performance hit.

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Robert

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 24 of 28

16-06-2005 05:23 . pm | View his/her posts only
Thanks, but what do you consider huge > 100Mb?

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 25 of 28

16-06-2005 05:29 . pm | View his/her posts only
Well, one of the last prototype molds we've built is now a 704 meg VX file. The last Lawn Mower shroud mold we built is 400+ megs. A Spool end mold I just finished up is over 500 meg. Etc.. Etc...

Some PowerShape models I've dealt with are over a gig.

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 26 of 28

16-06-2005 05:30 . pm | View his/her posts only
Now, also, keep in mind, this is EXCLUDING any Cam stuff. Since I've not begun to use VX cam end... yet...

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ChrisWard2k2

Newbie

posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 27 of 28

17-06-2005 05:43 . am | View his/her posts only
Hi Steve

I know you are used to seeing large CAD files because you are a PowerShape User - Delcam does produce very large files. Now, VX CAD files are generally not so large (CAM toolpaths and 2D Layouts tend to add more weight than 3D models). I do not know what your large VX models may contain, but it is worth giving them a quick health check. To do this, use the inquire function in the Root Object list and total-up the size of your Objects.

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Steve

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Registered: 2004-10-9

Message 28 of 28

17-06-2005 06:38 . am | View his/her posts only
Yes, VX Files are much smaller. Many of the models I get are quite complex, and quite large.
The 700 meg prototype had 19 different lifters, and 4 slides. 12 2D layouts, etc...
Pretty cool part.
See also