Here's a question for all you CAM programmers. How are you doing setup sheets for your operators? I don't see anything obvious in VX that creates nice, compact, readable setup sheets.

What I would like to see on a setup sheet is a one-line description of each tool, a one-line description of each operation along with a nice picture of the toolpath at each operation which would be generated with one click. I can get there now, but it entails a lot of copying and pasting. Maybe one of the gurus has created a macro for this?


Thanks,

Mike Leslie
Falcon Corporation

Hello again Mike

Could you spec-out your set-up sheet requirement in more detail please? Perhaps you already have an example? Email me all your info.

Jim sent me some .def files that pare down the info to a much more manageable size. It's a good start, but what I'm looking for is something *like* what GibbsCAM does with their "reporter" function. I believe they are pushing XML to Excel to generate the reports. I have attached one here.

Thanks,
Mike

Hello Mike

We can certainly do something like that. Not sure how valuable the "start and end condition" images are though - wouldn't a plan view of the toolpath be more informative?

A plan view of the toolpath could often be confusing on complex/large jobs.

I real do not like to talk about future version

Hi Steve

....a plan view (of one operation) compared to the iso view in the Gibbs example (you cannot see anything if the path is not in the foreground of the iso view!). However, any view at a relatively small size looks to be of limited value. What a plan view gives you though is the start and end positions of the cutter, and the region cut - this is going to help in deciding clamp positions I think. What else do we expect of these images?

To be honest with you, Chris, I don't use the Excel setup sheets that Gibbs provides. I kind of "roll my own" by printing the tool list, flip the page over, print the op list, flip the page over, print the final verified model, then print the x,y,z grid on top of that to show where the zero is. Sounds time consuming, but it's not.

If VX was able to do something like the Excel example I gave, only with more compact info and better (intelligent?) views, I would use it. Here's waiting for 13+.

Thanks,
Mike

Hello Chris,

We just got VX a little while ago. I'm interested in the setup sheet, too. Our operators need information like Tool Number, the line number the operation starts on, Minimum Z value for each operation, feed rate, rpms, time estimate for each operation, the operation description, tool diameter, corner radius, tool type, sfm, number of flutes, and a tool description. I'll e-mail you a sample of the setup sheet we used before.

thanks,

Nick.

Hello Nick, thank you for the file.

The new set-up sheet functionality in VX v13 is very comprehensive. What I can tell you now is that the data is processed dynamically, can include a tremendous amount of detail and is produced in real time. It was demonstrated at a recent Reseller Meeting and met the approval of very experienced CAM engineers.

Hello Chris,

I've been looking at the new xml setup sheet with version 13.40 and it still doesn't seem to include some
basic information that we have to have such as the minimum Z value for each operation, feed rate, and
sfm. Is there any way to extract this information? Right now I'm programming fixtures for airplanes that
are similar and I'm faking setup sheets from a generic sample like I've included. Anything I use that VX
produces is pages and pages -- 13 pages from Vx as opposed to 1 - 1 1/2 pages from the included sample.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Nick.

Setup sheet example:

____________________________________________________________________________
| Company : (My Company Name) BY: (Programmer) Date: (Today's Date) |
| Machine : (Name of Machine) Time: (Current Time) |
| Location of part zero : BACK LEFT + TOP OF BOTTOM Program #: 1 |
| Job :XXXXX-XXXX (Part description) LEG Process Time: 0:9:50 |
| Program Name : XXXXX-XXA.INC |
| Material: Aluminum |
| Operation: # 30 |
| Notes: SHORT LEG SHOULD ALREADY BE MILLED TO 1.500" DIMENSION. (notes by |
| ALLOW ENOUGH MATERIAL ON THE ZERO END TO CLEANUP. programmer |
| 5" RAPID + location) |
____________________________________________________________________________|
| __________ ______________ |
| 1ST SETUP |SETUP TIME| |MACHINING TIME| |
| |__________| |______________| |
| _________________________________________________ |
| |START | STOP | TOTAL | START | STOP | TOTAL | |
| |______|_______|________|_______|_______|_________| |
| Operator #1 | | | | | | | |
| |______|_______|________|_______|_______|_________| |
| Operator #2 | | | | | | | |
| |______|_______|________|_______|_______|_________| |
| Operator #3 | | | | | | | |
| |______|_______|________|_______|_______|_________| |
| |
| Tools Broken or Damaged: |
| |
| |
| Error and Reason for Error: |
| |
| |
|____________________________________________________________________________|

Mill Operations list
____________________________________________________________________________
| Op# | Min z | Time |T # |Feed |Speed|Opr | Comments |Ln |
|_____|_______|______|____|_____|_____|____|_____________________________|___|
| 1 |-0.3000|0:2:6 | 23 |5.00 | 500 | |FINISH-ZERO-END | 15|
| 2 |-0.0500|0:0:33| 1 |3.00 |1000 | |CENTER-DRILL-HOLES | 30|
| 3 |-0.3000|0:2:17|128 |5.00 | 500 | |MILL-OPPOSITE-END-LVE-.025 | 45|
| 4 |-0.3000|0:2:6 | 23 |5.00 | 500 | |FINISH-OPPOSITE-END | 60|
| 5 |-0.4000|0:0:27| 25 |6.31 |3153 | |TAP-DRILL-10-32-HOLES | 75|
| 6 |-0.5000|0:1:10| 29 |4.38 | 140 | |TAP-10-32-HOLES | 90|
| 7 |-0.5000|0:0:33| 4 |5.65 |1766 | |DRILL-9/32-HOLES |105|
| 8 |-0.4800|0:0:19| 20 |6.36 |2270 | |DRILL-HOLES-.030-UNDER-1/4 |120|
| 9 |-0.3500|0:0:10| 18 |12.73|3183 | |BORECUT-1/4-DOWEL-HOLES |135|
| 10 |-0.5000|0:0:48| 5 |3.42 | 380 | |REAM-1/4-S.F.-DOWEL-HOLES |150|
|_____|_______|______|____|_____|_____|____|_____________________________|___|

Mill Tool list
____________________________________________________________________________
|No |Diam. |C Rad |Type|SFM |Flutes|T # |D # |L # | Tools Required |
|___|______|______|____|____|______|____|____|____|__________________________|
| 1 |0.5000|0.0000|EndM|65.4| 4 | 23 |123 | 23 |1/2" CARBIDE 4FL - FIN|
| 2 |0.2500|0.0000|Dril|65.4| 2 | 1 |101 | 1 |HSS CENTERDRILL |
| 3 |0.5000|0.0000|EndM|65.4| 4 |128 |128 | 28 |1/2" CARBIDE 4FL |
| 4 |0.5000|0.0000|EndM|65.4| 4 | 23 |123 | 23 |1/2" CARBIDE 4FL - FIN|
| 5 |0.1575|0.0000|Dril|130.| 2 | 25 |125 | 25 |#10-32 TAPDRILL |
| 6 |0.1900|0.0000|Dril|6.96| 1 | 29 |129 | 29 |#10-32 TAP |
| 7 |0.2813|0.0000|Dril|130.| 2 | 4 |104 | 4 |1/4 CLR DRILL |
| 8 |0.2188|0.0000|Dril|130.| 2 | 20 |120 | 20 |7/32 (.219) |
| 9 |0.2400|0.0000|Dril|199.| 1 | 18 |118 | 18 |1/4 BORING HEAD |
|10 |0.2510|0.0000|Dril|24.9| 6 | 5 |105 | 5 |1/4 REAMER SF |
|___|______|______|____|____|______|____|____|____|__________________________|


Sorry about the looks of it - does better in Word Pad and other formats.

thanks again,

Nick.

Hi Scallopz

Well, VX XML is a "one hat tries to fit all" solution at the moment, as we gather further input from our Resellers, it is "early days" in the design of this facility. I'm sure the developer will be interested in your notes here, thank you.

Hi Scallopz

I've passed your suggestions to the developer responsible for XML output.

thanks,

Thanks VX for the introduction of XML data output, I love it.

I'd echo the words of others here in asking for other important information to be output e.g. speeds, feeds, tool station no., and also stock geometry / frame position... the list goes on and hopefully later versions of VX will be able to take into account many of these.

Just a couple of practical questions though, firstly is it possible to edit the XML header which links to a stylesheet? I only ask becase my VX Output directory is on a different computer to my VX install and results in a broken link between the XML and XSLT files. I could solve this by referencing a copy of the XSLT file local to the XML output.

Similarly is it possible to control exactly where the XML data is output - at present it seems to chuck all the data and bitmap images into the same folder where I have my VX cl toolpath data output!

Thanks for your help, and just to let you know I'm loving all the changes in version 13!

Tom.
tom.collings@kinneirdufort.com

Hello Tom

The style template and header file can be found in the output_def folder in the VX Corp program files folder.

e.g. Crogram FilesVXCorpVX13.40output_defVxCamProcess.xslt

Not sure if you can achieve the path re-direction you require though.

Concerning the Output Folder, the XML data goes to the default CAM output folder as listed in the Config Form.
However, on the CAM Output form, you can re-direct the NC Program files to another folder, which would leave the default folder for XML.

Modifying the file Crogram FilesVXCorpVX13.40output_defVxCamProcess.xslt to include the new path solved the problem.

And the redirect for the NC output is a handy workaround.

Thanks for your quick reply Chris!

Or maybe something like the attatched setup sheet:

thanks,

Nick

Hi Scallopz

The rtf file is a bit of a mess in all of my word processors - perhaps a screen-shot would help?

I think the challenge we have is to present an interface which will allow Users to select what data should be included and how it is arranged - i.e., a User-defined template. There are XML editing tools out there but I think they are more "software programmer tools" rather than "end user tools".

It occurs to me that we could make use of VX 2D Layout Sheets, which already support tables, text notes and images.

Chris,

Sorry about the looks - it uses a landscape layout -maybe this will be better

thanks, I appreciate your interest in this.

Nick.

Hello all,

The setup (information) sheet(s) are pretty much useless. Is there any hope of something that will impart usable information in the future? I've just spent 1-1/2 hours creating what normally takes 30 seconds. Gee whiz, its only data collection and reporting.

regards,

nick.

Hello Nick

The XML output is work in progress and the developer has all of the info you provided at hand. We have had input from people all around the world and whilst the "wanted list" has a core consistency, it is clear that we need to provide an interface that allows the User to tailor templates to best suit their specific requirements. We will get there.

Chris,

I say again, check with Paul Andrews at postprocessor.com (PostHaste) or 1-805-583-3460. He's on the west coast, so he isn't there til 12 noon or 1 pm EDT.

I was thinking you all had already talked to him at one time. We got our company to pay for post(s) from him because IMS Post was a disaster, but they balk at

shelling out the bucks for a setup sheet since they say both posts and setup sheets were supposed to be included with the software purchase. I know that may

just be an issue with the seller (Matt), but that's where we are.

thanks,

nick.

Hello Nick

I'm sorry but I do not know of any conversations you have had with other people on this subject, I have just ensured that useful info posted to the Forum by customers finds its way to the development team.

Hello,

The customize xml setup sheet with version 13.65 is a great improvement -- all I need now is the File Name at the top and the addition of the tool speed and feed rate added. It would be nice if the operation and tool information were output on the same line with line numbers at the front of the line.

I downloaded a program to translate the xml to a text file so I could add individual notes to it.

Thanks for the improvement, and here's hoping for more.

thanks again,

nick.

Hello Nick

I will raise a PCR for the enhancement. I assume you mean tool speed and feed to be output per operation. Since that can be varied along the toolpath, what is required min - max?

Can you tell fellow VX'ers what application you used to translate the XML file?

Hi Chris,

Yes, the maximum speed/feed for each operation would be fine.

I found a couple of conversion applications by going to google and typing "xml to text". Alas, the two applications I downloaded would translate all fields in the xml file, not just the unsuppressed ones. It turned out to not be much help.

Personally, I would be happy with output of a setup sheet in text form, or with allocated fields that could be filled with whichever variables, e.g."File_Name" or such.

We generally have to manually type special instructions and the like on many programs. We average 25 to 30 programs a day, and we have to get them out fast.

thanks again for the improvements and the PCR's

Nick.

Hi Chris,

As I'm getting back into VX since the improvement on the setup sheet, I wonder if it's possible to change the tolerance on the output of information such as minimum Z. Right now the output is .00 -- what we would like is .0000

thanks,

nick.

Hello Nick

I will raise a PCR for that one. As a work-around, it should be possible to run a find-replace on the file in a plain text editor.

Ah, cancel that last comment. I read your request to mean control of decimal places used, where the number of decimal places used also indicates the tolerance, a common system. Not sure that is actually what you do want though, and what values should it be applied to? Can you flesh-out the requirement please Nick so that there is no doubt about what needs to be done.

Chris,

When scribing lines for burnouts the minimum Z level is -.005". On the xml information sheet it comes out as .00

thanks,

nick.