V14 feedback

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cutter

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Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 1 of 30

 V14 feedback
06-04-2009 05:38 . pm | View his/her posts only
I have not posted here for some time as I am no longer an active on maintenance user even though I do still use the program. But I don't know where else to go to get user feedback [and I don't trust publication reviews nearly as much as user reviews] to help me decide whether it is worth it to go for V14. So for you V14 users willing to do so please respond and tell me about your impressions of the cad side and especially the cam side of things and please be specific about what you see. Regards to all, Cutter

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cutter

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Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 2 of 30

10-04-2009 01:18 . pm | View his/her posts only
Anybody, somebody? No opinions?

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chris

Assistant Engineer

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Registered: 2011-5-24

Message 3 of 30

20-04-2009 08:25 . am | View his/her posts only
I like the V14. cam is a bit different from what i see. The cutter path looks better and less input is required. I'm not a big fan of fully automatic program generation but I guess it is the thing now. I have not had a problem with it yet. The design part has more icons now so you do not need to know where everything is, good for new users. The feature I like the most is the ability to make an AVI out of an animation. The ones I have done have got very positive reviews from customers and web designers. Any specific questions?
Chris
Allegheny CAD Solutions, inc.

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cutter

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Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 4 of 30

20-04-2009 12:20 . pm | View his/her posts only
Thanks for the reply Chris. Biggest questions on cam center around 2d and has it become easier to use. Also what are the additions to the tool library over v13. You mention toolpaths look better. perhaps I was not setting things up right at times but it seemed that I cut a lot of air at times so do you find the new paths more exact in this area? How do you find the NC file sizes in general, have they gotten smaller? You mention less input here so does this mean that parameters for specific cam plans are now more intuitive and easier to figure out for geometry selection to include into a cam plan to get it to work? How reliable are the translators especialy the Parasolids and DWG's if you use them? Thanks for your time, Dave

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 5 of 30

20-04-2009 06:13 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi DAVE,
haven't you got your password yet????

Quote

Hey Dave, We'll release Version 14 in March 2009 and I will ensure that you get a password. Please keep us on your list. I've always appreciated your honesty and feedback. bobf


Maybe Bob has lost your email address?

Cheers

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Robert

Newbie

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 6 of 30

21-04-2009 07:39 . am | View his/her posts only
I haven't, I'm just swamped

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Mike

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Registered: 2002-8-28

Message 7 of 30

21-04-2009 02:27 . pm | View his/her posts only
Dave,

I am not sure how to get people active on the forum. I guess everyone is too busy. You can get a 30 day license for your End-to-End bundle and check it out for yourself. Just send an email to passwords@vx.com Because of the changes I have seen going into the product and because it is so close to being released, I would wait until 14.01 to start your 30 days. You can check support.vx.com for the 14.01 release notes.

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Paul

Moderator

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Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 8 of 30

21-04-2009 05:13 . pm | View his/her posts only
Thanks for the heads up Mike.
Makes good sense to me.
And Bob, thats cool too.
We all have that problem form time to time - and longer.

Cheers

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cutter

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posts: 55

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 9 of 30

22-04-2009 02:12 . pm | View his/her posts only
Mike, when you say end to end is the cam enabled here to? For some reason I thought just cad was. I think a user network is pivotal to establishing interest in the forum and the product. VX has the names of all current and past users and should canvas active users in each area, where you have a large enough group within a specific mile radius of say perhaps 60 miles, and find volunteers to start user groups which should then generate interest in other areas like the forum. I think until users know there are other users in the general area they feel like lone rangers and so go on their own way with out thoughts of a community. There are a number of potential benefits to VX and users here and it costs next to nothing to do with volunteers and your mailing lists. Think SWX here for the benefits accrued to all involved.

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 10 of 30

22-04-2009 02:34 . pm | View his/her posts only

I think it would benefit everybody if there were more User Groups, CAD CAM is sophisticated and no matter how easy to use we make each command, the overall efficiency of use will depend on how a task is approached. I see customer files every day where people have defined a huge amount of unnecessary geometry that probably was necessary in the application they used previously.

A User Group can bring together people of different industries, so not only is CAD CAM knowledge shared but engineering techniques and methods too. There is a barrier to the idea of User Groups though - a perception that they are simply a dry, boring meeting of little value. A friend of mine once said "CAD User Group? If I were a carpenter, would I join a club for chisels and screwdrivers?". Another thing is that everybody is so busy - if you are putting in 12 hour shifts everyday, may be you don't have the time or the energy. So, this forum should be a good compromise and sometimes it proves to be so.

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 11 of 30

22-04-2009 05:11 . pm | View his/her posts only
I am planning on meeting with the first guy in this country to buy Solid Works years ago.
So the longest users of SW and VX in New Zealand will meet and have a chat.
Why? Because we know each other and I want to talk CAD with someone who knows their stuff. I will be interested to hear his gripes about SW and hopefully be encouraged that VX is a good place to be. To discuss what we enjoy doing and hear about each others projects, challenges etc.
It is not all technical. it's a human interaction thing. Many operators are isolated - how many are in multi designer/user environments.
It's not everyone's cup of tea/coffee and there is a time and travel cost.

Re your builder buddy. If his industry is changing technology he would need to be somehow engaged in learning. He also had a 4 yr + apprenticeship and will work with other builders daily or at least occasionally. He will also meet and see other builders at various places and have a group of building mates. He is already in a user group of sorts.
In this country we have a huge farming industry. Same cows, sheep grass etc as they have for years. But almost all farmer are engaged in localised 'user' groups that meet to discuss issues, new technology etc. 3 to 6 times per year.

I just love seeing how other people do stuff so I can learn from that. Chris, I wonder if you are referring to my models re surplus geometry???

So the idea is sound. VX resellers should be encouraged to encourage them. But it is up to users to do it.

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 12 of 30

22-04-2009 06:45 . pm | View his/her posts only
....Never mind the farmers getting together, the sheep are having their own meetings (according to Shaun)

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Mike

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Registered: 2002-8-28

Message 13 of 30

23-04-2009 09:36 . am | View his/her posts only
Quote

Mike, when you say end to end is the cam enabled here to?

Dave,
Your end to end license has Cam. It does not include 5-axis. That is an additional purchase. That is different then downloading the 30 day license from our website. That will give you an Innovator license which is an entry level tool. Just send an email to passwords

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cutter

Newbie

posts: 55

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 14 of 30

23-04-2009 11:33 . am | View his/her posts only
Thanks Mike

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 15 of 30

23-04-2009 04:51 . pm | View his/her posts only
Chris,
are you referring to Wallace and Grommet?????????

I was talking about USER groups not USED Groups.
Sheep do not run the farm, they run ON the farm.
However , the subject for both meetings is the same - the grass is ALWAYS greener in the neighbouring paddock.

Cheers

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ChrisWard2k2

Newbie

posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 16 of 30

23-04-2009 09:09 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi mudcrab yes I was These days Shawn has his own show, which illustrates the power of the meeting........
Things are a bit different here in my part of Wales, the sheep definitely are in charge. You can use the roads, but only when the sheep decide to let you through!

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Paul

Moderator

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Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 17 of 30

23-04-2009 10:14 . pm | View his/her posts only
Sheepers creepers Chris! that explains a LOT!........................

You should start up a fencing supplies business. Unfortunately electric fences do not stop the little pasture maggots, so it'll have to be wire , staples and posts. (not forum posts, although I am sure you have enough of those to set up a small empire.)

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cutter

Newbie

posts: 55

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 18 of 30

24-04-2009 01:14 . pm | View his/her posts only
Chris, interested in your reply to my specific questions RE vx if you have the time. Or anyone else to please do chime in as your feedback is important . Thanks, Dave

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Mike

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Registered: 2002-8-28

Message 19 of 30

24-04-2009 03:00 . pm | View his/her posts only
Dave,

ChrisW and I agree you should definitely update your maintenance. Not that we are prejudice or anything. We have boat payments.
Did you see the extensive list of improvements under the Release Notes?

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 20 of 30

24-04-2009 06:00 . pm | View his/her posts only
Dear Moderator,
could you please remove all reference to sheep (except this one) in this Discussion. It does seem to be considerably off topic and detracts from the genuine concerns and requests for information that Dave has so politely requested.

FYI: I have found one website that is very open and informative about what is new in its's releases. Rather than being glib providing just a list of headings, it explains them and provides screen shot examples. In the instance I am linking here, Whats New in TFlex, it is the manner of the information, not he content that is on display.
Off course, one needs to know what exists for this to make total sense. Much of what in on the example page is has been 'normal' for VX for a while, so comparison is difficult. This is the challenge for New/Prospective users to figure out.
My observation is that larger vendors are more secretive in their presentation of information. Having to register to see detail is baloney. I don't have to give my name to enter a shop to look around, why should I to investigate software?
What does annoy is 3d models rendered in 3rd party software. OK to have section for them, but not as the main gallery. It just aint honest.

So, if VX had a Whats New page with a full disclosure, perhaps the programmer/s doing the particular work should produce the images and text explaining the enhancement as part of the project, then Daves questions would largely be answered.... maybe.

Cheers

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ChrisWard2k2

Newbie

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 21 of 30

24-04-2009 06:56 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hello Mudcrab

Given the circumstances of the World these days, I'm sure the occasional comical banter is welcomed by most. Dave (cutter) is specifically seeking the opinions of VX v14 customers. That is why I and the other VX staff have not gate-crashed into the discussion with our views about the software - they would rightly be seen as biased. The Chris that Dave has addressed specific questions to is not me (Chris Ward (Moderator)).

The Release Notes are specifically for VX customers - they already know what they have got (at least, some of them do...). Customers and prospective customers alike can glean more information from the VX Website, which is far more informative than many:

http://www.vx.com/vx2009_highlights.cfm

Quote

I don't have to give my name to enter a shop to look around, why should I to investigate software?


You might be a big fish competitor trying to steal our ideas!

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 22 of 30

24-04-2009 08:55 . pm | View his/her posts only

Hi Chris,
tongue in cheek. A blend of serious and fun off[sic] course.

Still think the " High lights is as I described --- headings."
It could inform in more detail with a paragraph or so of explanation per item and more where this is merited.
Staff familiarity with the product should not be assumed of everyone else.
When new features are provided, I should be able to read and learn enough about them in one place to be able to expect to use them.
Happy to read the detail in the Help for the real details. So it's more of a requirement to know what, where and how and see enough examples to figure yes I can use that.

So why are Release notes specifically for customers?

Stealing ideas is going to happen anyway its part of life. Only a timing issue in reality. VX got any ideas that came form anywhere else?

Sheep. fish.... hmmmm.
Cheers

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ChrisWard2k2

Newbie

posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 23 of 30

25-04-2009 06:46 . am | View his/her posts only

Quote

So why are Release notes specifically for customers?


The Release notes tell customers what is new and what is fixed - a brief about the nitty gritty. So, your new VX is everything you have got now, plus. If you are not an existing customer, you want to know a whole lot more about what is already there.

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Mike

Newbie

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Registered: 2002-8-28

Message 24 of 30

29-04-2009 01:40 . pm | View his/her posts only
VX does have a requirement when the developer is closing an ENHANCEMENT that he/she has to provide the User Access and User Impact. (Where do I find the new command and what does it do) I periodically try to look through this section and rewrite in English. The enhancement area should give customers a very good idea of the new capabilities added in that release. As Chris so eloquently stated, no software vendor wants to air their dirty laundry to the general public. Some of the enhancements are things that maybe we should have had a long time ago. Espionage is alive and well in the CAD/CAM business. I doubt whether we should even include the FIXES because from a one line short description of a bug you nor I know exactly what was fixed. That is why when a PCR is written in reaction to a customer complaint we usually add the customers email address to the report so they will automatically get an email every time the report is updated. Though I am sure it is comforting to some to know the volume of work that goes into each release. Plus we use that list as one avenue of testing.

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cutter

Newbie

posts: 55

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 25 of 30

14-05-2009 12:46 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hey guys I am going to ask one more time for detailed feedback RE 14. I was really hoping for a bigger response than the one to date. I know Paul likes the cad side and he is the only one to give me details as to why. I need to hear from some users of the cad and cam especially. If it was your question you would hope for answers to wouldn't you? A forum can be a valuable tool for all involved but to make it that way you have to participate. I belong to an active forum on another site and I can tell all the VX users who care to listen that you are missing valuable information from other users who have had to deal with the headache you have today before and they along with the support guys who come here can get you going. Up early today with cad problems and posted questions and a file and had answers by 6 in the morning from Australia and Italy. Support from a company alone can't do this because they operate by business hours only. So you could wait till Monday, or tomorrow for support, look in the always incomplete manuals or you could help to start making this forum a valuable resource by attending and posting regularly and it can become your best source of after hours help. It will only work with volunteers so are you one or do you just use the stuff and could care less. It will take a while to get the ball rolling here but with persistance it will work if you do.

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ChrisWard2k2

Newbie

posts: 2

Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 26 of 30

14-05-2009 02:12 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hello cutter

We do support outside business hours by virtue of the fact that VX Tech Support people are in different time zones around the world. The way demand ebbs and flows has the greatest impact in support response times.

I hope other customers can find time to respond to your questions. Did you get that 30-day license to try v14 for yourself?

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cutter

Newbie

posts: 55

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 27 of 30

14-05-2009 04:21 . pm | View his/her posts only
Chris, Mike recommended that I wait for 14.01 as there are evidently some changes. When that comes out I will try it and see what kind of a deal they will make me if I like what I see. I had hoped for feedback as 30 days seems to be a lot of time until you get it and then you get busy and before you know it the time has passed and you still did not check it all out. But at least my hot button issues will be no problem to verify as I know exactly where to go for those. Pleased to see the increased amount of VX ads as I run across them pretty often now. I know you frequent the forum regularly but I was unaware that others outside of Mike and occasionaly Bob [ who is not support afterall as he checks in to see whats going on. ] were ever on the forum.

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chris

Assistant Engineer

posts: 43

Registered: 2011-5-24

Message 28 of 30

16-05-2009 10:43 . am | View his/her posts only
I am very sorry that my response was not detailed enough. I am not a computer geek I use VX for design and I program for NC mills and a laser. I have been on CAD and programing machines since the days that we wrote programs by hand using a desk top calculator that the most advanced function was square root. The VX NC in V14 has done everything that I want, if you are cutting a lot of air it is because the set up is wrong. The stock and bounding curves are what causes a lot of air cutting. I do not know what type of programming you do but mine is one of a kind tooling. We use it and then thats it never used again, so I do not spend lots of time getting a program perfect in regard to lost time. My opinion of VX cam is high because it is so easy to use and so far has cut everything I have thrown at it.
Chris W and Mike Lynch have always helped and have been most honest. They can tell you what has changed and explain how to best use it. I cannot, I just know it works for me.
Chris Stahler
Allegheny CAD Solutions,inc.

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cutter

Newbie

posts: 55

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 29 of 30

16-05-2009 01:04 . pm | View his/her posts only
Thanks Chris. You did answer one of my major questions perhaps in that it could be setups at my end that caused the air cutting and not the fault of VX toolpaths.

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 30 of 30

17-05-2009 10:02 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi Dave,
got to give you some moral support here. At the intro FEA course I just did, the tutor commented that at least 90% of all problems where with the tool[sic] on the end of the keyboard. I'll bet the support guys for any software will agree with that.

FYI. The software used in the course was Catias' Simula. I am sure it can do almost anything you want but the interface was arcane. If you didn't know the program in detail you where very likely to simply get lost. So sounds to me that the interface on VX is a lot closer to the right place than some others out there.

Cheers
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