CAD software discussion forum > 3D CAD/CAM > Easy use and efficient sketch in ZW3D2012

Easy use and efficient sketch in ZW3D2012

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Orchid

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Message 1 of 24

 Easy use and efficient sketch in ZW3D2012
26-12-2011 01:06 . am | View his/her posts only
Efficient sketch is a good start of modeling.

More friendly operation and improved functions help you to decrease sketch time by 30%.

1) New constraint types --- Points coindient and lines coindient


2) Better constraint mark layout and more clear constraint identification


3) Directly drag geometry to edit


4) Repeat command with "ok" click

5) X/Y axis works as reference axis


6) The virtual origin point couldn't be delete. It can used as reference geometry for sketch and dimensional.

7) You can choose dotted grid lines or solid lines to wok as the sketch background


8) Keep the sketch always visible and editable in sketching context.

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Jon

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Message 2 of 24

26-12-2011 01:12 . am | View his/her posts only
All links broken. No screenshots show. Please check them.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

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OldForumPost

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Registered: 2012-1-14

Message 3 of 24

27-12-2011 07:13 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi, Jon

Could you please check if you see the pictures there, thanks. As I could see all the screenshot without problem, I suspect if there is any internet problem.

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Paul

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Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 4 of 24

02-01-2012 05:23 . pm | View his/her posts only
Congratulations on finally delivering on point and line coincidence.
I am wondering if the interactive dialogue positioning can be somewhere other than where the modelling is taking place. Can it know to open in space or be semitransparent at least?
Contraint highlighting is also very helpful - most especially with perpendicular which can go and hide in obscure places.

Will we get an option for active dimensioning? e.g. add a line and the dimension is already there either to be modified immediately or later.
Cheers

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Jon

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Message 5 of 24

02-01-2012 06:10 . pm | View his/her posts only
I'd like to see this functionality implemented for sketches:

Drive Multiple Parts With One Sketch

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
CADCAM Technology Leaders

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Paul

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Message 6 of 24

03-01-2012 12:42 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi Jon,
VX and Z3 have been able to do this since forever.
You can run and entire assembled of parts from one sketch.
Ditto variables and dimensions that have common relationships can reside in ANY part and be used in ANY other part any where in ANY file as long as it it accessible by the system.
So your wish is granted.

In the model you link to, it looks like a single part is replicated.

SWx has a master sketch option(they call it something else) - which many people do NOT use.
I recently did a project which initially used this to the set up the driving parameters for an articulated assembly.
However, in the end I was forced to abandon it because as the sketch got complex, it became so intolerably slow that it was a hindrance.

I have never had slow Z3 sketches AND I can drive any part from any or multiple sketches - something SWx cannot do.
Cheers

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Jon

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Message 7 of 24

03-01-2012 01:01 . pm | View his/her posts only
I wish to do exactly what's shown in the video. What's shown in the video is driving two parts without being in sketch mode.

Last time I used VX its sketcher was modal.

In SolidWorks you have to be in sketch mode and it's not able to do what's shown in the video. Supposedly there maybe some kind of bizarre workaround using SolidWorks Instant 3D which I'm not interested in.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

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Kevin

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Registered: 2004-4-26

Message 8 of 24

04-01-2012 12:04 . pm | View his/her posts only
Quote

Originally posted by: mudcrab
Hi Jon,
I have never had slow Z3 sketches AND I can drive any part from any or multiple sketches - something SWx cannot do.
Cheers


Paul, Solidworks can use one sketch to drive multiple parts or assemblies. The layout sketch mode you mention is intended for top down assemblies, but it is not used that much as most people use standard sketches with blocks. It is good practice to use blocks in SolidWorks sketches where the blocks drive components in a mechanism. We use this technique all the time - on a job we do we have a whole structure set up from just 2 driving sketches. Editing the two sketches drives an assembly rebuild and alters patterns etc (linked by equations).

One of the reasons why any sketch slows up is due to it having to resolve too many relationships on the fly. Locking parts of the sketch in a block eliminates this issue. All I can say is, I never "got" the VX sketcher in the years I used it. Now they are using D-Cubed (like SolidWorks) hopefully this new interface and more robust sketching will make the results more consistent.

Jon, I had a good look at IronCad recently. I think there might be a bit of smoke and mirrors going on in that demo - it doesn't look similar to what we saw. You can directly edit dimensions in Solidworks to change parts and assemblies in a similar manner by turning on annotations - I don't think this is related to Instant 3D (which I agree is useless).

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Paul

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Message 9 of 24

04-01-2012 12:34 . pm | View his/her posts only
Thanks Kevin,
yes, the old sketcher took me several years. Although in my own defense, I think most of the difficulty was trying to get past bugs. Things like unreliable arcs etc.
Current areas of weakness are patterns and things like adding a parallel line but there is no parallel constraint or distance applied.
Patterns are not remembered either. So still room for improvement.

Re SWx. I was doing a top down assy. I spoke to several SWx users from client companies and none had used top down or even new what 'virtual' parts were which kinda surprised me.
I didn't get to discover what blocks are so am in the dark about that.
Cheers

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Paul

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posts: 261

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Message 10 of 24

12-03-2012 12:34 . pm | View his/her posts only
Having used 2012 for a while now on a side project I think the following needs to be pointed out about the new Interface.

There are some good points and definite improvements BUT there are some serious backwards steps. The GUI and display entices with some nice stuff.

Sketcher in 2011 is a reasonable beast. It is probably the most robust implementation from the stable.

2012 has a few glaring problems. here is a non exhaustive list. You might like to add others so our friendly developers know where to focus..
  • Selection of sketch elements in Top Down modelling when there are background elements visible, is poor to bad.
  • Trim doesn't work in a number of situations top down.
  • Reference lines are picked above sketch elements. One should have to Alt pick reference lines, not Alt pick sketch segments.
  • Dialogues require a local Cancel or OK click - NO MMB close.
  • Dialogues persist so that you are forced to close them even though you only needed once.
  • Some dialogues allow multiple picks, other deliver single pick response and multiple pick efforts of the same item.
  • The grey transparent shaded view display background shapes and components makes distinction between items incredibly difficult.
  • There is No shaded view back ground option whilst in Sketch. Even thoug you can have all the other view options!
  • All tool bars require two targeted clicks to access a hidden(drop down)tool, when in 2011, this is a single click and slide.
  • What makes this even more frustrating is that there is lots os room for the tools to be visible in the first place.
  • Opaque constraints cover up the sketch elements.
  • Some dimensions get covered and are temp invisible at certain zooms.

  • Dimensions only display fixed decimal - no blank zero option.

There is more.

In summary - the sketcher interface desperately needs streamlining to make the whole experience smooth and efficient. Right now it takes a lot more click effort to sketch compared to 2011. This is NOT what is supposed to be happening.

I really really hope that SP1 fixes all of these so that users can actually enjoy the modelling experience at the coalface level.

I am not sure just ZW is deciding what needs to be done. What I do know is that unless you have very creative click lazy people who have a lot of modelling experience screaming for these annoyances to be fixed improvements are tooooo slooow.

So guys, where is it headed?

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Orchid

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Message 11 of 24

13-03-2012 11:55 . am | View his/her posts only
Post Last Edit by orchid at 2012-3-13 11:57

Reply 10# mudcrab

Hello mudcrad,
Thank you for your good suggestion. About this improved sketch in ZW3D 2012, I‘d like to make some explanation to clear .

1) About the grey transparent background, there is a feature ’show target' to hide the background.
show target.jpg
2012-3-13 11:22

Would you like to check it again on your PC? is it the latest version?

2) About dialog operation, MMB is just the one way to confirm the command. in the sketch, Space Key function is the same as OK click, Exit function is equal to Cancel.

after finish one geometry drawing, user could directly to pick up the new feature and continue the drawing. it isn't necessary to force to close them. about this operation process,we could think together and found out the best .

3) About more operation steps and dispaly problem, they will be continue to optimized in later versions.

4) About dimension, the basic attribute is offered.Are necessary more dimension attributes for sketch?

some other problems, I need more detail to check again. Thanks

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Paul

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posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 12 of 24

14-03-2012 03:07 . am | View his/her posts only
Thanks,I respond re the grey transparent background.
Show target only isolates the sketch. However in top down design, we need to drive from the previous objects so being able to see them and pick their edges, faces, points etc is very important.
(In fact, right now we are luck we have show target, otherwise it is not possible to use 2012 sketcher in top down!)


With ALL objects being grey it is not possible to distinguish parts.


So the transparency style is OK, but the loss of colour is not.
I think the option for edges displayed should also be there in the transparent situation too.
Cheers

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Paul

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posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 13 of 24

14-03-2012 03:35 . am | View his/her posts only
Reply 11# orchid

Response to MMB - not closing the dialogue.I now see the new task switching option - thats good. but we have more improvements ...


Lets take adding Reference Geometry as an example. Previously I MMB to close then RMB to open options.
Now MMB doesn't not close the dialogue.
Spacebar does not close the dialogue.
(In fact on the dialogue OK and Cancel are the same thing anyway so why not have one button.)


Now I have to ICON pick a new task from a toolbar. But mostly I want to Smart Draw.
The RMB option does not have Draw or any non reference options so this is not a fast way out.
Esc works. but that is a second hand effort. In the end I make a serious of moves to go back to draw.


OK ,so the solution could be to add External functions (smart draw, line, circle, dimension) to RMB even when is a specific dialogue like Reference so I can go directly to core tasks without multiple clicks.
-------------
If we are to carry this to logical conclusion, the Shape tools should be visible during sketch so that as once you had finished sketching you could pick the shape command you wanted and go straight to using this sketch in that command.
I think the single sketch commands could even be available from the RMB! Perhaps at the bottom of the dialogue...?
e.g. Extrude & Revolve, this would be a good start.
Cheers

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Paul

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posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 14 of 24

14-03-2012 03:36 . am | View his/her posts only
Re Dimensions.
The minimum enhancement is to eliminate 'end' zeros - always.
This way we can have 3 decimla, but no clutter zeros. Please - soon.

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Mirko

Newbie

posts: 215

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 15 of 24

14-03-2012 03:53 . am | View his/her posts only
Thanks,I respond re the grey transparent background.
Show target only isolates the sketch. However i ...
mudcrab Post at 2012-3-14 03:07



Hello to all children, it is very difficult to work so ifyou impossible , i work a lot with the sheet metal iron which has already its problems now with this display and it has become a drama ( babylon translator)

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Orchid

Super Moderator

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Registered: 2011-6-24

Message 16 of 24

14-03-2012 10:07 . am | View his/her posts only
Reply 12# mudcrab

About the transparency style, the colour information should be keep in sketch. I agree with you.

there is a feature to turn on/off edges display, but it has a little problem. we will fixe it as soon.


About MMB...

Lets take adding Reference Geometry as an example. Previously I MMB to close then RMB to open options.
Now MMB doesn't not close the dialogue.
Spacebar does not close the dialogue.
(In fact on the dialogue OK and Cancel are the same thing anyway so why not have one button.)

in ZW3D 2012, MMB and Space bar also can close the dialogue. Would you like to check it in latest version?

OK and Cancel button means are differnet.

After data input, OK/Space bar will perform this operation and exit the dialogue; Cancel/Exit will directly exit the dialogue and don't perform task.


About RMB option, different users have differnt habits. so it is a databale problem. (⊙o⊙). we will take more consider.

Thank you for your suggestion about dimension.

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Paul

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posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 17 of 24

19-03-2012 05:29 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi Orchid,
Re 'OK & Cancel' button.

In some dialogues the Button is the same. These dialogues are like the Reference ones. As you pick an edge, face etc, the command is executed and a new reference is added. There is NO 'OK' button requirement and CANCEL doens not stop the execution. We have UNDO or Delete later if required.
So in these 'one pick, instant action' commands, OK and CANCEL deliver identical results.
IMO that makes them the same - so I suggest that my first comments are correct in this type of dialogue.

Please prove to me I am wrong.
Cheers

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Mark

Newbie

posts: 80

Registered: 2011-7-11

Message 18 of 24

20-03-2012 06:32 . pm | View his/her posts only
Having used 2012 for a while now on a side project I think the following needs to be pointed out abo ...
mudcrab Post at 2012-3-12 12:34



What is THE BEST way of reporting issues that someone has?, on the forum or discussing with a reseller.
On the forum may be difficult to get across what is going on and no PCR number is issued?

The benefits are you may have agreement from other users.

With your reseller, the problem could be understood and hopefully reported and PCR issued if applicable.

Mudcrab, you have listed quite a few issues and yourself and others will want them resolved for more efficient less problematic workflow.

Without numbering each one I would not be confident that they are definitely looking at them!.

Mark

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cutter

Newbie

posts: 55

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 19 of 24

21-03-2012 03:15 . am | View his/her posts only
Reply 18# theMIB

Even this forum stays broken and just how hard can this be to do right with gobs of website creating programs out there. I am begining to think there are so many things to be worked on and fixed that there is just a melt down going on. Good luck with getting a number. It does not mean anything here anymore like it did when qualified support would look at your problem.

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Paul

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posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 20 of 24

21-03-2012 03:20 . am | View his/her posts only
IMO going via a reseller is a an unnecessary waste of time for all. The whole point of a forum is to bypass layers of time wasting effort and get response from others who are using the software and presumably experiencing the same issues.

Alas, the catch 22.
Since the Forum is a malfunctioning uncompleted beastie, it cannot be done what would seem a sensible and proper way.

We have WISH LIST but it is a DEAD end. {:2_40:}

I guess by putting it out here I am hoping that others will either support or argue so that ZW can be aware of users response.

But with the forum structure not behaving even reasonably, and the RSS not being correct then the whole process of user dialogue is effectively gagged. Simply because it is all so clumsy. Kinda scary when you consider that there are many well function forums out there and the software is probably open source, that here, where it should be a professionally run affair, we have this toy thing happening.

You gotta wonder....

Or maybe I am just a cranky old dude now :lol

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Ken

Newbie

posts: 17

Registered: 2011-5-24

Message 21 of 24

21-03-2012 04:20 . am | View his/her posts only
I think ZW are having problems alright.

I have VX files that will not regenerate in ZW3D 2011, or 12.

My local reseller and myself worked on a file together, that was done in ZW3D 2010, the file fails in 11 and 12.

I cut the file down, and the reseller submitted it to ZW, he has heard nothing back, that was a couple of weeks ago.
He had already previously been asking them, about files done in VX failing in 11, and 12, and had heard nothing.

Why, when ZW finally manages to get out the passwords for ZW3D 2012 dongles, "going by their post", still work 10 and 11.

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Mirko

Newbie

posts: 215

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 22 of 24

21-03-2012 04:39 . am | View his/her posts only
IMO going via a reseller is a an unnecessary waste of time for all. The whole point of a forum is to ...
mudcrab Post at 2012-3-21 03:20



Hello mudcrab , you're not old ,only a user enthusiast who believes you congratulations! Like you I hope that this forum will serve to understand the problems that we encounter .(babylon 9)

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Paul

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posts: 261

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 23 of 24

24-03-2012 05:14 . am | View his/her posts only
The sketcher work flow idea is that rather than close a dialogue you move to tne next action directly and let the system close the dialogue.
No problems with this except it isn't working.

And here is why I think there is a problem. Let's sayI have just added some equal length contraints and the add constraint dialogue is open.
I now want to add some dimensions which is a RMB access.

But RMB doesn't do anything. I think that is should bring up the regular sketcher RMB menu so I can then move to the next task.
If that was working then the workflow would improve a LOT.{:2_31:}

I suspect that's how it ws mean to work.

(thank for the encouragement Mirko - you are correct - I am a financially committed long term enthusiast. Z3 can do awesome stuff. It's the journey that needs working on)

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Mirko

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posts: 215

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 24 of 24

24-03-2012 06:50 . am | View his/her posts only
:)
(I will have my licenses for april 15 with the italian version for now I use the demo but with english i litigo therefore i shall limit myself to by aspettatore :) ,then i hope to be useful for the growth of zw3d especially the sheet that i'm thrilled for the enormous potential IT IS)
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