Colin need help

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Mike

Assistant Engineer

posts: 14

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 1 of 22

 Colin need help
06-01-2012 12:31 . pm | View his/her posts only
Colin,

I got this step file and needed to look at the cavity blocks for a revision. I got down to the blocks and they are all one shape, tried different methods to separate them, with no success. Surfaces touching each other? I did need to quote this revision today. This is the reason I really feel bad about losing American tech support.

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William

Top Influencer

posts: 250

Registered: 2010-10-28

Message 2 of 22

06-01-2012 09:00 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi, Grasshopper,

Happy new year, I am William, ZW3D support engineer come from ZWSOFT GuangZhou, thank you for your trust. I have check your attached file, the problem is that the plastic product shape lost some faces during importing , and the insular face sew with nearby shapes, so it is hared to divide them. I used a little skills and fix it for you, some times when you sew this prolbem, you can turn off "Auto sew geometry" option then sew them by color filter one by one, but it really need to take you a little time to do it.

By the way, We will release ZW3D2012 very soon, With the new ZW3D 2012, there are a lot of new features have been invented by both of China and American R&D, And improvement of STEP Importing is also make a huge progress.Such like your case, the speed and quality in ZW3D 2012 is better than 2011, also the problem what you meet in ZW3D 2011 have been solved very well. I record a compare video for you, you can get more detail about it.


Native STEP import in ZW3D2012

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William

Top Influencer

posts: 250

Registered: 2010-10-28

Message 3 of 22

06-01-2012 09:05 . pm | View his/her posts only
More informations about STEP import/export in ZW3D 2012:

A native STEP translator, instead of third party integrated solution, produces better quality model data and is at least twice as fast as the old system. For example, a 28Mb STEP file will take about 30 minutes to import into ZW3D2011. It will take just 2 minutes to import into ZW3D2012. Additionally, the size of Z3 file is smaller in ZW3D2012, while the quality is maintained at the same high level. Extra functionality for export allows the selection of target objects to be included in the export process.



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cutter

Newbie

posts: 56

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 4 of 22

07-01-2012 02:54 . pm | View his/her posts only
Grasshopper,
This is a ZW problem. In Solid Edge ST4 this opens up just fine and as you can see in the second screencapture an individual part is opened and ready for editing in place. ZW2011 SP2 opens it as a dumb single solid. I am afraid tech support would not have helped you on this one. Translator problems have been a big problem since VX V9 and it appears they still are. We will see if 2012 does anything in this area. I notice they did not successfuly work on your part.

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Jon

Newbie

posts: 61

Registered: 2009-12-31

Message 5 of 22

07-01-2012 03:54 . pm | View his/her posts only
Your STEP file opens in seconds in SpaceClaim with no errors ready to direct edit. All the Layers came across perfectly as well.

There is no distinction between part and assembly mode in SpaceClaim. SpaceClaim is the best direct modeler I've ever used and I've used most of them... Solid Edge ST, Inventor Fusion, etc.

I purchased SpaceClaim a few years ago to augment what SolidWorks can't do very well... work with dumb solids. SpaceClaim easily has the best user interface of any CAD or CAM product I've ever used and the least modal workflow. SpaceClaim also has the ability to let you edit multiple parts at once in a cross section view which is something other direct modelers don't allow you to do

Check this video out if your interested in this functionality:

Edit Multiple Parts Using A Cross Section

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://cadcamtechnologyleaders.blogspot.com/

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William

Top Influencer

posts: 250

Registered: 2010-10-28

Message 6 of 22

08-01-2012 07:20 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi Cutter, I have solved this problem in ZW3D 2011SP2, you can download the attached file to check it in my first reply post. As what I said, ZW3D2012 we use native STEP translator but not use the third parts translator, so the quality and speed has huge improvement, in this case ZW3D 2012 can solve this problem very well, also you can download the video to get more details




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OldForumPost

Newbie

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Registered: 2012-1-14

Message 7 of 22

08-01-2012 08:21 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hey Guys,

I notice that William has solved the problem for Grasshopper, you can't say anything if you didn't download the attachment. I also see the videos, I believe and trust ZW3D2012 can work better !!

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Jon

Newbie

posts: 61

Registered: 2009-12-31

Message 8 of 22

08-01-2012 09:30 . pm | View his/her posts only
I greatly prefer how Solid Edge ST, SpaceClaim, TopSolid CADCAM 7 (Twitter) and Vero Visi CADCAM (Twitter) open a STEP file to what's being show with ZW3D. ZW3D requires many more steps, says it fails to stitch one part into a solid, doesn't make all the parts easily accessible. I think plenty of work is still needed here when it comes to ZW3D.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Rank: 1

cutter

Newbie

posts: 56

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 9 of 22

09-01-2012 10:19 . am | View his/her posts only
OK I think I see how you are trying to do things. The file William posted shows partial mold assemblies and I cant unblank anything to see the whole assembly. Therefore my assumption was that ZW could not work here. Now that I see you are using blanking to reveal the parts in the original STEP import I understand how you propose to work on these parts. Maybe I don't know how to expose all the parts in the history tree though as all I can figure out to do is blank and unblank which is most definitely not the right way to work an assembly. Is there a way where, as in the SE screen capture, where the step file can be brought in and all seperate parts recognized as seperate entities and visible in the history and where they can be editied as such? It's pretty imoprtant for each part to be seperated into it's own part file. I still don't see a way to easily work on this mold at this time. See screen capture. When SE brings it in all parts are seperate parts, listed and editible in either it's own file or in the context of the assembly. Blank and unblank only as a method is pretty cumbersome and I won't work that way.

Is 2012 going to pull assembly files in as a set of part files and then the overall assembly or assembly and subassembly files? I see the list of parts in the video, what I don't see is can I pull up just one part and work on it.

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 326

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 10 of 22

09-01-2012 05:54 . pm | View his/her posts only
STEP is apparently preferable over IGES for assemblies.
Also it is supposed to supersede IGES. At least that was the intention of ISO.

Being assembly focused:
In one respect, it makes sense to me , as Cutter points out, for each body to be listed.
Ideally StartData could be expanded reveal the discreet objects(parts, components or what ever they are)

I don't know if these bodies(in the example) actually have a name from the originating export? If so they should carry this name with them.
Are part names part of the standard STEP format?

Looking at the SE tree, it seems that each part has been given a name by the import? rather than the original name?
Should they be listed as components rather than shapes? I suspect this is a more accurate representation than separate shapes.

How ever, unless the names are actually meaningful, I am not sure they actually help. One still has to select the items you want to work with. You either guess at which ones in the tree or pick them graphically in which case the names are not helpful. So being able to blank objects quickly and easily is useful and effective.

Re blank and unblank -
I find the Z3 control of visibility of objects very useful and when using other software it is one of the great annoyances - not being able to isolate visibility with the freedom that Z3 provides.
There are a few instances where controlling visibility could be improved - top down assembling part editing - but it would need some more specific situation options. Not a pressing need for now.

The desire to create files for each component is just a paradigm thing.
Personally I think the Z3 'everything is an object' approach is more useful and flexible yet easier to manage than discreet files and folders.

What I do find amusing, is that being an enthusiastic DE proponent Cutter, you now want a fully populated tree! Cripes- how hard it is too please some people! May be that's a 'fruit loop'?

Cheers

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Jon

Newbie

posts: 61

Registered: 2009-12-31

Message 11 of 22

09-01-2012 07:24 . pm | View his/her posts only
"STEP is apparently preferable over IGES for assemblies."

Not always. STEP is no guarantee of perfection. Pro/E puts out excellent IGES files. IGES is all Qualcomm used in the two years I was there. Never had a problem. I had plenty of problem moving STEP files to PC DIMIS.

"Ideally StartData could be expanded reveal the discreet objects(parts, components or what ever they are)"

Only way to go and that's exactly what all the screen shots posted here and on Twitter show. Not sure where you come up with "Ideally". It's more like mandatory.

"You either guess at which ones in the tree or pick them graphically in which case the names are not helpful."

How is it not helpful if you pick the part graphically and it highlights in the tree? What more could I ask for?

"Are part names part of the standard STEP format?"

Yes. Be happy to provide proof of this with a screen shot if you want. I'll use my tombstone video on You Tube as proof. The Tombstone video uses SolidWorks / CAMWorks. I'll output it as a STEP file.

My Tombstone Challenge

"Personally I think the Z3 'everything is an object' approach is more useful and flexible yet easier to manage than discreet files and folders."

I don't.


Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
CADCAM Technology Leaders

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William

Top Influencer

posts: 250

Registered: 2010-10-28

Message 12 of 22

09-01-2012 07:34 . pm | View his/her posts only
Quote

Originally posted by: cutter
OK I think I see how you are trying to do things. The file William posted shows partial mold assemblies and I cant unblank anything to see the whole assembly. Therefore my assumption was that ZW could not work here. Now that I see you are using blanking to reveal the parts in the original STEP import I understand how you propose to work on these parts. Maybe I don't know how to expose all the parts in the history tree though as all I can figure out to do is blank and unblank which is most definitely not the right way to work an assembly. Is there a way where, as in the SE screen capture, where the step file can be brought in and all seperate parts recognized as seperate entities and visible in the history and where they can be editied as such? It's pretty imoprtant for each part to be seperated into it's own part file. I still don't see a way to easily work on this mold at this time. See screen capture. When SE brings it in all parts are seperate parts, listed and editible in either it's own file or in the context of the assembly. Blank and unblank only as a method is pretty cumbersome and I won't work that way.

Is 2012 going to pull assembly files in as a set of part files and then the overall assembly or assembly and subassembly files? I see the list of parts in the video, what I don't see is can I pull up just one part and work on it.


Hi Cutter, I think you didn't understand Grasshopper's question, his question is that the step file import to Zw3d, and several shapes(Cavity and slider shapes) what they should divide as different single shape but sew together. And I use Blank and UnBlank just to explain that I have solve this problem in ZW3D2011, also ZW3D 2012 never meet those problem again.

It doesn't mean that I want to use Blank and UnBlank to know how many shapes in one part. In this Case, What ZW3D cann't read this STEP file as Assembly part is not the problem in ZW3D but since this STEP files what it export as single part. If you don't believe that ,you can open this STEP file directly use Solidege, Soldworks, NX expect PRO/E(Creo), all of them just has one activate part , this is one way to see whether this STEP export as singl part or whole Assembly. Why PRO/E is special ? since it just support Single shape modeling, it cann't own more that two geometry in one part, this is a big disavantage in it, so when PRO/E read any STEP file, each shape need to show as one part.

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Jon

Newbie

posts: 61

Registered: 2009-12-31

Message 13 of 22

09-01-2012 07:43 . pm | View his/her posts only
Screw it... here is a screenshot showing part names come across in STEP files.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Rank: 2

Mike

Assistant Engineer

posts: 14

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 14 of 22

09-01-2012 07:48 . pm | View his/her posts only
Thank you William
Great job done, I know there is other software out there that wouldn't have had a problem with the file. That is just not me, and I want to make ZW better. You gave me a solution for version 2011, Also I did see that 2012 did a excellent translation of the file. Sill my point is, I have had many situations in between releases, where solutions (work arounds) were needed and were solved by American tech help quickly. Then I was taught how to solve them by myself. That is what I call a great software co. I always thought I was contributing to the improvement of ZW. I mostly use ZW for mold making and that section needs some help, especially in separating core and cavity. If silhouettes worked as good as 2012 imported the step file, that would be great. With all different situations being brought to American tech help, via the phone. American technicians service the world, not just the USA I don't want to leave ZW and hope that this company will realize that technical help that is easy and reliable to contact is the most important service to their customers. They really know there software and that's talent and should never be let go of.

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William

Top Influencer

posts: 250

Registered: 2010-10-28

Message 15 of 22

09-01-2012 07:54 . pm | View his/her posts only
Quote

Originally posted by: JonBanquer
Screw it... here is a screenshot showing part names come across in STEP files.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA


Hi Jon, I Know what you mean, ZW3D history manager doesn't show any geometry informations but just show the operate history. It is different from SpaceClaim, ST and NX.

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Jon

Newbie

posts: 61

Registered: 2009-12-31

Message 16 of 22

09-01-2012 07:58 . pm | View his/her posts only
Hi William,

In this case I don't think different is better. I think ZW3D needs to show what everyone else shows... the actual part names in the STEP file.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Rank: 1

OldForumPost

Newbie

posts: 0

Registered: 2012-1-14

Message 17 of 22

09-01-2012 08:11 . pm | View his/her posts only
Quote

Originally posted by: grasshopper
Thank you William
Great job done, I know there is other software out there that wouldn't have had a problem with the file. That is just not me, and I want to make ZW better. You gave me a solution for version 2011, Also I did see that 2012 did a excellent translation of the file. Sill my point is, I have had many situations in between releases, where solutions (work arounds) were needed and were solved by American tech help quickly. Then I was taught how to solve them by myself. That is what I call a great software co. I always thought I was contributing to the improvement of ZW. I mostly use ZW for mold making and that section needs some help, especially in separating core and cavity. If silhouettes worked as good as 2012 imported the step file, that would be great. With all different situations being brought to American tech help, via the phone. American technicians service the world, not just the USA I don't want to leave ZW and hope that this company will realize that technical help that is easy and reliable to contact is the most important service to their customers. They really know there software and that's talent and should never be let go of.



Hi, grasshopper

We are working for the enhanced Mold Module, and we can define the cavity faces and core faces separately, which could fix the problem you mentioned and make the core and cavity separation quickly. It will not included to the beta1 on January 18th, but includes to the beta2 before Feb 14th. With this professional mold module, I believe your mold design will be much more easier.

we hope that the continuous enhancement of ZW3D can serve you better, we do understand the technical support is very very important, and you can always contact us quickly by Email or Skype. As the team in GZ, not only William, but also a lot of other technical staff will do the best to help.

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William

Top Influencer

posts: 250

Registered: 2010-10-28

Message 18 of 22

09-01-2012 08:11 . pm | View his/her posts only
Quote

Originally posted by: grasshopper
Thank you William
Great job done, I know there is other software out there that wouldn't have had a problem with the file. That is just not me, and I want to make ZW better. You gave me a solution for version 2011, Also I did see that 2012 did a excellent translation of the file. Sill my point is, I have had many situations in between releases, where solutions (work arounds) were needed and were solved by American tech help quickly. Then I was taught how to solve them by myself. That is what I call a great software co. I always thought I was contributing to the improvement of ZW. I mostly use ZW for mold making and that section needs some help, especially in separating core and cavity. If silhouettes worked as good as 2012 imported the step file, that would be great. With all different situations being brought to American tech help, via the phone. American technicians service the world, not just the USA I don't want to leave ZW and hope that this company will realize that technical help that is easy and reliable to contact is the most important service to their customers. They really know there software and that's talent and should never be let go of.


Hi Grasshopper, Thank you for you trust. I would try our best to help you and respond your question ASAP, you know we still have a big support team which own stager guys will help all ZW3D uers in whole word. About your Mold spliting question, we are working on this for a long time, we will release ZWMOLD application very soon with ZW3D 2012 Betaw test, I think it must can give you more surprise.

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William

Top Influencer

posts: 250

Registered: 2010-10-28

Message 19 of 22

09-01-2012 08:40 . pm | View his/her posts only
Quote

Originally posted by: JonBanquer
Hi William,

In this case I don't think different is better. I think ZW3D needs to show what everyone else shows... the actual part names in the STEP file.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA


Hi Jon, If the STEP file is assembly STEP, ZW3D can keep the name as original part name .

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Jon

Newbie

posts: 61

Registered: 2009-12-31

Message 20 of 22

09-01-2012 09:17 . pm | View his/her posts only
William,

Much better. Thanks.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Rank: 1

cutter

Newbie

posts: 56

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 21 of 22

09-01-2012 09:38 . pm | View his/her posts only
Either one of us or both of us are not communicating well on this assembly problem. All I know is ZW 2011 does not open it in a good fashion for editing, and 2011 is what I am talking about. I see 2012 in your headers and I don't much care about 2012 as that is not what I get to use. Tired I guess of going round and round here on this assembly and I quit. SE does not give me this grief and everything comes in automatically and is immediately editable with top drawer direct editing in place or as a seperate standalone file and I don't have to hunt for the secret key to the kingdom. Hopefully 2012 will be better for cam and as for cad I guess I just don't care anymore beyond bringing in a part for cam.

In days gone by I could pick up the phone and call Mike after he worked on the file and we could accomplish more in 10 minutes of webex or dialog than I can with this stupid email back and forth stuff wait a day post again wait another day post again. I am really having to bite my tongue here and not say things I may later regret and I will tell you that I am seriously pissed about support right now.Really I am wondering why am I here and why did I do this to myself. Earl, another guy you all fired talked me into it and I regret it.

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Jon

Newbie

posts: 61

Registered: 2009-12-31

Message 22 of 22

09-01-2012 10:21 . pm | View his/her posts only
"I see 2012 in your headers and I don't much care about 2012 as that is not what I get to use."

I thought you wanted improvement in ZW3D, Dave. Looks like real improvement to me.

"Tired I guess of going round and round here on this assembly and I quit."

You never quit, Davey. You're like the Pillsbury Dough Boy who just keeps popping up with fresh nonsense.

"SE does not give me this grief and everything comes in automatically and is immediately editable with top drawer direct editing in place or as a seperate standalone file and I don't have to hunt for the secret key to the kingdom. "

Please tell us all about the CAM in Solid Edge, Dave. I must have missed you asking Karsten Dingleberry or Kris (I take up space) Kasprzak for it on your fog blog. Pretty easy to see Solid Edge resellers retweeting my call for NX CAM inside of Solid Edge that uses Solid Edges native user interface on Twitter. Why are you so silent about no native CAM in Solid Edge, Dave? More special treatment on your part for the totally incompetent mangelment that is Solid Edge US marketing? How long do you think can you keep up this transparent charade, Dave?

"In days gone by I could pick up the phone and call Mike after he worked on the file and we could accomplish more in 10 minutes of webex or dialog than I can with this stupid email back and forth stuff wait a day post again wait another day post again."

Why can't you pick up the phone and call Mike on Skype or on his cell phone now? Do you dial with your tongue? Try using your fingers instead.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
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