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george

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Message 1 of 27

 solid verify
30-03-2004 06:17 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Can something be done with the speed of solid verify?

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Dan

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Message 2 of 27

30-03-2004 06:25 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Unfortunately this is the industry "standard"

Machine Works libraries are present maybe in 80% of CAM systems and are pretty much optimal in what they are doing.

However something can be done a remove collinear under a new tolerance not the toolpath generated one should improve somehow the speed but will not accurate simulate the present toolpath but the new removed collinear one.

Are you interested by this enhancement?

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george

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Message 3 of 27

30-03-2004 06:32 . am   |   View his/her posts only
You mean verify the tool path instead of the cl file? I have tried that and I have tried to lower the resulution and it is a little faster but is so fasseted you can not tell what is actually happening.

Verifing cl data has given us some unusual results, it does not look anything like what the tool path shows.

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Dan

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Message 4 of 27

30-03-2004 06:42 . am   |   View his/her posts only
If this is the case we should fix CL simulation too if we pretend to have it

Please submit a PCR and you'll have a more official tracking of your request.

I told you Solid simulation involves pretty complex maths inside and what we have there is pretty much what everybody has.

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george

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Message 5 of 27

30-03-2004 06:44 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I will do that, have you heard of anyone else haveing this problem?

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Dan

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Message 6 of 27

30-03-2004 06:55 . am   |   View his/her posts only
My "fault" in VX.CAM is called QM.

So pretty much this is what I know pretty sure.

However I know the guys that wrote the CAM simulator and I've analyzed pretty serious and I can say using that technology (tessellated reps) is pretty optimal in what it does.

Using the raster model (rapid ver) you'll have faster simulation but the uniform grid is pretty annoying in particular in parts with sharp edges and steep walls.

Do u have there a fast computer?

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george

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Message 7 of 27

30-03-2004 07:00 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Here are some examples for you to look at.

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george

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Message 8 of 27

30-03-2004 07:02 . am   |   View his/her posts only
My main computer is pretty fast.

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Dan

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Message 9 of 27

30-03-2004 07:04 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Dear John,

I'll contact the guy in charge with simulation. If this is bother you so much.

I can help you with QM advice and enhancements but is becoming beyond my expertise this.

--dan

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Dan

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Message 10 of 27

30-03-2004 11:54 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I raised a PCR for you no 14356 with a relative elegant solution to your problem.

Lets hope will be addressed ASAP.

"
In many cases a very fine generated toolpath requires unacceptable long time to solid verify.

Inspired by a request raised by George John of Lake City Forge I propose to add a remove collinear tolerance for solid ver. This should be defaulted to toolpath tolerance.

This can potential increase simulation speed with a factor of 100 in real case scenarious.
"

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Robert

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Message 11 of 27

02-04-2004 04:41 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Hey John,

Couple of ideas...

1. Save the stock between each operation and then start from where the last op ended.
2. Get familiar with the sliders on the 9.x interface, try the one that speeds up the simulation (move to the right)
3. Try reducing your Display Properties to 1024X768 (less pixels means less computation)
4. Use a combination of rapid verification and solid verification between ops.

I'll chat with our Verification guy and see if he's getting similiar complaints.

Thanks,

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george

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Message 12 of 27

06-04-2004 01:11 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
I have been able to speed up verification by playing with the facet tool tolerance, I do not know if this will have a nagative effect on what I machine but for now it looks to speed up solid verify.
Can we find out from Machine Works if we could get a wireframe tool as an option for solid verify? Maybe this could also help speed up solid verify.
I have been verifing and saving and starting up from a saved stock.

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ChrisWard2k2

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Message 13 of 27

07-04-2004 08:54 . am   |   View his/her posts only
VX already has a wireframe view option for solid verify. However, the bulk of the computations are not screen display. Hardware wise, a fast processor with generous RAM is the order of the day.

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george

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Message 14 of 27

07-04-2004 03:19 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
I meant just the tool would be wireframe.

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george

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Message 15 of 27

15-06-2004 08:51 . am   |   View his/her posts only
HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING ON THE PCR? THIS IS LIKE WATCHING PAINT DRY. EVEN IF I USE A COMBINATION OF RAPID AND SOLID VERIFY IT STILL TAKES TOO LONG TO SOLID VERIFY A TOOL PATH, I HAVE A GOOD COMPUTER SO I KNOW THAT THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

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ChrisWard2k2

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Message 16 of 27

15-06-2004 12:45 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Hey George,


Please don't shout at us! I know solid ver takes a long time on sophisticated production jobs because one needs reasonable accuracy in order to be confident that all is well. This is not just a VX problem, it is a CAD-CAM industry problem. Having delivered the technology, ways to speed up the process without sacrificing accuracy need to be found. However, we are talking about a seriously complex challenge! Sorry, but nobody can bring about a quantum leap overnight and as yet nobody in the industry has visualised a better way to achieve the goal. As you can see, our QM expert has already passed a suggestion to the Solid Ver developers, MachineWorks, that will help to increase speed.

One tip is to set-up all your PCs to run verifications un-attended overnight.

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george

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Message 17 of 27

17-06-2004 12:06 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
I don't have the time to run a program overnight, if I want to rapid verify I can but I need to watch and see tools solid verify to see where roughing passes have left too much stock. I have seen two different cam systems that can verify in minutes compared to VX.

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Dan

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Message 18 of 27

18-06-2004 09:15 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Dear George,

Indeed I agree with Chris. Stop shouting at us we pretend to be human beens too.

The status of the PCR is as follow:
1. I raise it.
2. We decide is an important improvment and should go in version 10 of the product. In theory version 10 was already closed but we did it for 10 to please you guys.
3. I made the design and presented to the guy in charge with Machine Works integration.
4. He implement it and told me is 3..5 times faster for medium to big length paths.

So I believe youll be somehow pleased when V10 comes.

You should understand VX had decided to go with mainstream CAM companies and to use Machine Works for simulation. This is kind of de facto standard now in CAM world and more than half of the market use it. We want to give you professional verification tools and this is the reason why we use them too.

Now if your desired-to-be-verified path is a QM path you should try to use AFC this can really improve milling continue analyzing tool loading.

--dan

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george

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Message 19 of 27

18-06-2004 11:03 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I did not mean to make it seem like I was shouting I am sorry for that. I did not hear anything about the pcr and was wondering if the ball had been dropped or what. But you have to understand that I have a job to do too and I can't have tools breaking because I rapid verify and miss a spot where extra material is left from a previus tool it has happened several times.

The thing that is not clear is why the only tool path that runs in a decent amount of time is an offset 2d rough. The slowest tool paths are finish passes. I understand that there is alot of stuff going on but I have used other software that is very fast, I beleive that one of them also uses Machine Works for verification too. Is there something that I am doing wrong? Is there any other adjustments I can make to speed it up?

I am looking forward to version 10 and hope that it is faster. About when is it do out?

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Dan

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Message 20 of 27

18-06-2004 11:57 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Dear George,

When you write with Caps On this means shouting and in general is considered offensive.



We have a job to do too and mainly this job is to make you and other guys like you happy.

I really fill sorry because you broke tools. I'm curious if you'd played with AFC. There you can really simulate quite complex tool engagements and will slow down as much as you like if the tool becomes too loaded.

Be aware QM paths are smooth by default! This adds huge complexity to a polygonal simulator. So if you don't have an HSM machine please remove all settings regarding toolpath smoothing this should dramatically speed up solid verification!

Let us know if this makes slightly happier.

In QM0.20.17 are fixed plenty of problems in roughing in general and in special in milling from stock. Milling from stock has the ability to more uniform load the tool minimizing full width cuts.

I really suspect the speed of simulation on the other CAM using MW was related with path smoothing.

So if you see are plenty of projects ongoing in CAM and I hope many of them touches your problems too.

Regards,
Dan

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george

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Message 21 of 27

18-06-2004 12:29 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
We have a few different kinds of machines, one Enshu (6,000 rpm), Fadal(10,000rpm), Okuma(6,000rpm), Deckel(18,000rpm) We are looking to get a Deckel 5 axis machine in the near future.

No I have not gotten a chance to play with the adaptive feed control mostly because I don't know anything about it, maybe someone could help me out with that.

What smoothing settings are you refering to?

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Dan

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Message 22 of 27

18-06-2004 12:56 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
in general in roughing is a %XY Smoothing at bottom of cutting form.

AFC is obvious to use just check th check box in feed control and enable in appearance tab feed varaition if you want to see visual the feed varaition.

good luck.

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george

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Message 23 of 27

18-06-2004 01:04 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
WHAT ARE PILLOW OPTIC PARAMETERS? WHAT IS SPIRALIZE?

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Dan

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Message 24 of 27

18-06-2004 01:58 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
DO U YELL AGAIN OR IS ONLY MY FILLING?

They are new goodies that you can use

I will definitely don't explain them to you. Read the manual and experiment with the product ask your dealer. If all our users will do the same I will definitely not have time to wonder you in next versions with new functionality.

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george

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Message 25 of 27

18-06-2004 02:07 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
sorry I leave caps on and I forgot to turn it off.

I asked Vic Baker when he was here and he couldn't tell me. The manual isn't always very easy to read, sometimes it helps for someone to tell it in English so it is easy to understand.

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Dan

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Message 26 of 27

18-06-2004 03:16 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
OK, I'm the worst English speaker on this forum but I'll try to explain you.

Inside spiralisation group you can tweak conversion in spiral of closed spans of a toolpath. To experiment with this create a hemisphere, generate a relative dense Z Level path and enable spiralisation. It should remove short linking motion with a continue spiral. This will reduce linking inflexions.

Pillow optics gives you possibility to create bulges on the surface. This is especially useful for guys that manufacture lighting systems to mill dispersion regions. Basically you should use this only with finishing paths that offset in 3D like: Offset3D, Flow 3D, Drive curve, etc. The toolpath will be fragmented after various rules and will be converted in a bunch of approach moves that will create a bunch of bulges in material like a golf ball or a break glass from a car.

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Robert

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Message 27 of 27

22-06-2004 11:18 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Adaptive feedrate control allows the tool to move as quickly as possible during each cutting motion based upon specific tool/machining parameters described in VX Help (listed below).

Short Span Distance - The value used to remove small spans with higher feed between long spans. A larger value will make milling process smoother and slower.
Frontal Factor - A more rigid tool, with more flutes, has this coefficient higher.
Radial Factor - A more rigid tool, with more flutes, has this coefficient lower.
Min Feed Rate - Minimum feed rate per minute.
Max Feed Rate - Maximum feed rate as a % of minimum feed rate.
% Tool Height Load - Tool loading as a % of tool height.

See also
X