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Chip break tool path creation bad until reboot

    
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cutter

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Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 1 of 23

 Chip break tool path creation bad until reboot
30-12-2012 02:31 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Post Last Edit by cutter at 2012-12-30 02:52

ScreenHunter_02 Dec. 29 12.26.jpg
2012-12-30 02:27


Here is a picture of the speeds and feeds for chip break ZW3D latest version. If you will notice the feed rate is grayed out and clicking on it does nothing. Could I ask just how feed rates are determined here? I can hardly use a program that won't tell me the feed rate or allow me to assign one. The hole feature was created with pick cylinder. Also creating the hole feature by point fails for the same reason. This is also failing with other hole drill methods. Feed for the 1/2 drill on the NC file is inputed at 16.9. If inches way to fast. If MM way to slow.

Now as an experienced ZW/VX guy I know that many times I can reboot the program and problems like this will go away. This is what happened today and I can go forward as after reboot it is OK. These weird little inconsistencies do not help and a newbie would be in real trouble.

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Ken

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Message 2 of 23

30-12-2012 04:33 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Reply 1# cutter

I have the same thing happening, the feeds gray out on the drilling operations, after having opened a tapping operation.
Reboot is the only way I have foung to fix.

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cutter

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Message 3 of 23

30-12-2012 05:45 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Reply 2# deltadc


I figured I was not the only one. I don't get as upset over this stuff as I used to though and most of the time I don't bother posting about problems anymore. Mid February should see the beta of Geometrics integrated CAM program for Solid Edge and if it is any good I will buy it when it becomes available. If not I will be getting Mastercam especially since it has a reasonably priced package to do on machine probing with the Renishaw macros and enter them directly into your NC file. Oh, and a support desk I can call into five days a week for instant help. I remember when VX valued their customers enough to do that. ZW buys them out and shows customers their true value by ending it. Just counting the days with the end in sight. Didn't have to be this way but ZW is just falling behind their competition more and more.

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Mirko

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Message 4 of 23

30-12-2012 05:50 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Yes I can confirm, i, cool place for 25 years , but are novice cam zw3D, and i changed immediately after 5 days of use. Should Be fixxare all problems cad/cam and then consider improvements. now for only problems and loss of time, then i don't do molds perhaps is that my problem , in production where serves very 2.5D is a product very poor

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Ken

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Message 5 of 23

30-12-2012 06:28 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Yes I can confirm, i, cool place for 25 years , but are novice cam zw3D, and i changed immediately a ...
mirko72 Post at 2012-12-30 05:50



I have been a VX/ZW user for years, the current Cam I don't trust, all sorts of weird stuff happening.
Tools digging into the work piece.
Unable to generate the tool path, when I know nothing is wrong, parameters etc.
Generating a tool path, when it shows up on the model, so does one of the previous tool paths.
I am spending more time rebooting the software in Cam, as it is the only way to fix the problems.

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cutter

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Message 6 of 23

30-12-2012 07:09 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Reply 5# deltadc


Hey, I have another one. How about a plate with lots of holes and a taper at the top going down roughly .5" in a .75" thick plate with a .125 radius at the top of the taper. In Quickmill Smoothflow if I change the stepover I may miss cutting some of the part in Z at the top of the plate. Any stepover change results in erratic links between holes instead of orderly progress in a logical sequence and it varies every time you change. This of course brings you to the joy filled world of try this and try that until you get something decent. There is nothing consistent you can plan on for a cam plan with parts like these and what works on one part won't on another and for no reason I can figure out.

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Ken

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Message 7 of 23

30-12-2012 07:37 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Hey Cutter, when you get down to the joy filled world of try this, try that, there is no better way to learn the software.
Where the curved ball comes from is when they introduce new errors & bugs.
How newbies can figure out how to use this Cam is beyond me!

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Ken

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Message 8 of 23

30-12-2012 07:48 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Reply 6# cutter


Hey Cutter, When you get down to the joy filled world of try this & try that, there is no better way to learn the software.
Where the curved ball comes from is when they introduce new errors and bugs.
How newbies can figure out how to use this Cam, the way it is operating at the moment, is beyond me!

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cutter

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Message 9 of 23

30-12-2012 09:03 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I am coming to the conclusion that V14.5 was the best version. I may just dig out the old dongle and reload it and see how translations work for Solid Edge ST6. It sounds like you are having more trouble than I am. What kind of parts are you cutting?

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cuttin9864

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Message 10 of 23

31-12-2012 09:33 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Reply 1# cutter


What had hppened ? There must be something wrong with it !

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William

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Message 11 of 23

06-01-2013 10:51 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Dear all, thank you for all of your suggestions. This problem had been fixed, it will achieve in ZW3D2013 version.

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Ken

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Message 12 of 23

06-01-2013 11:48 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Reply 11# William_ZW3D


Dear William, to have to wait for the next version, for the fix to this problem, is not good enough.

To get the feeds back for the drilling operations, you have to reboot the software, then if you open another tapping operation, or open the
feeds and speeds to the one that caused the problem in the first place, you are back to where you started, no drilling feeds.

Ultimately that means you have to buy the next version, or you are stuck with this!

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cutter

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Message 13 of 23

06-01-2013 01:09 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Yes it does but ZW is not the only company that does this. All cad and cam software does this as far as I can see. What bothers me more than the bugs I can usually work around is the lack of features other programs have and that ZW is falling behind many other programs in it's capabilities. Sheet metal, 64bit, high speed machining, feature recognition that works, reliable assembly proceedures, direct editing, routing for piping and electrical and rendering to mention the ones that have driven me away for CAD four years ago and will do so for CAM by the end of the first quarter this year. ZW has a really big job to do just to catch up and quite frankly at the speed of improvements over the last two years I just don't see it happening. I check in here because I have memories both good and bad for software I have used for some time. What ever they do now is to little to late for me.

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Factorytuned

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Message 14 of 23

10-01-2013 09:50 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I have to agree here. I have stated this very thing. Held hostage with broken software. Who does that? Fixed in 2013 - I would hope! Despite 2013 coming out soon one would think rather than alienating or sticking a company with broken software, or in my case an individual, there would be an ServicePack to a broken product for those who have paid for it or are not moving to the new - pay for - service pack called 2013. And one sure fire way to prevent the need for a patch is to loose the customer. Problem solved.

FT

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cutter

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Message 15 of 23

10-01-2013 11:01 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
I was thinking about what you said Factory. This problem of slow updates and patches actually goes back a long time before VX was bought out. I remember arguing about how can VX be end-to-end if you don't have posts? V10,11, and I think 12 I had to have a new post for my Haas each time and argue to get it. I remember all the grief I used to have over translators especially DWG's where VX could not even do a round trip without failing miserably. I still have problems with parasolid imports and these go back to at least 2008 when I started using Solid Edge for CAD. Siemens owns parasolids and I went down to Huntsville where Solid Edge is located and where they ran diagnostics on my VX problem. I am lucky that way as their headquarters is just 65 miles away! They were more interested in making sure what they were doing was correct than VX was. Turns out that while VX/ZW licensed parasolids from Siemens how VX/ZW deals with it on their geometry kernel does not provide complete accuracy.

I see today in the inbox an email for ZW2013 and if you bought in 2012 you will get it to. I renewed I think at the end of 2011 so I probably wont. I would make an effort to try 2013 for free but not to spend more money on. There are just to many tough edges I have had to tolerate to reward them with more money until I am rewarded with a better product. It would be academic interest however as unless they do something really remarkable I am checking out for good around I figure March or April.

I don't know what ZW thought they were buying into with VX. Yes they got their hands on one of they few geometry kernals out there without having to develop one from scratch. But it is not in any way like the 2D stuff they were familiar with. I have been quite involved with Solid Edge and I go to their headquarters and I see the amount of time, money and manpower it takes to do a lot of this stuff. And it is just not any coder who can provide innovation and reliable useful software features. Direct editing went back to roughly 2004 for initial concept and the decision to go forward with it. 2008 was the release of ST1 and this coming June will be the release of ST6 where the last piece of the puzzle with complex surfacing will be done. This takes a long time with top coders and lots of money to do right and I hear the same from every company that does so. Solid Edge has been a 3D modeler since 1995 and some of the same people are still there with them that came from Integraph which was the parent of Solid Edge originally.

This then is the ZW problem. Unless they are willing to hire top flight coders from countries with experience in these areas they are pretty well doomed to being second rate. By the time ZW's coders get good at todays level of work they will have already been bypassed. It does not mean that Chinese coders are dumb it means they don't have the technical base or the philosophy of knowledge creation to work from. In addition it is a whole culture that goes with the coder that provides creative innovations. Imitation does not work only original thought does. From what I have been told by the head of Solid Edge he says the center of the coding universe is Cambridge ( Delcam for instance) first in the UK and then perhaps MIT ( Solid Works and Mastercam for instance) here in the US. There are many others that do good work to but for some reason these two are at the forefront of many things. The industrial revolution and modern manufacturing all started in the West and spread throughout the world. From planes and trains and CADCAM to assembly plants and making steel it all started here. Including the underlying philosophy of manufacturing that goes with it. China has had tremendous benefit from technology developed elsewhere where they did not personally have to spend the century or two to develop along with a population who knew how to do it. So you can buy something but do you have the creative and innovative talent to make it different or better or both?

This is the million dollar question for ZW and only time will tell. I remember talking to some of the VX guys who had pulled work from India because while there were good code writers there the creative spark was missing and this was the hole people like Dan Micsa filled. I would imagine there are fewer than a couple hundred people in the whole world with the mindset he had and you have to treat them well and pay them well to keep them. Moduleworks where Dan now is employed for instance drives 4 and 5 axis stuff in the vast majority of all top CAM systems out there.

One thing is for sure. Time passes quickly and buggy software runs customers off. Hearing that it will be fixed some day and we are trying hard does not sound good to the guy who is trying to make money and having problems doing so and who ZW expects to get another check from. It will be in the next version we promise when many others have it NOW is not good. It will be interesting to see how ZW grapples with this problem.

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Factorytuned

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Message 16 of 23

11-01-2013 12:26 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Cutter I had no idea Bentley Systems was behind that product. I used to sell Intergraph workstations in the 90's. This, when Intergraph was partnered with MicroStation.(now gone!)

Well regrettably, if the product continues to loose ground in the US I don't know what they'll do. I guess third world countries could support it for a while. The Europeans simply will not tolerate this type thing as they go from 100% in - to 0 we're out, with one "we can fix it"..

When I bought this product back in 2009/10, I would not have thought this, the direction of the product. I personally do not want to have to learn another product or two products to get parts off my tools.

Again, regrettably, I have told my sales rep., when he emailed last week, I was not interested in upgrading to 2013 or at least not until I was able to sample it in beta form.

I too will likely continue on with 2012sp2 until I can get another product on line and running. I know Inventor quite well and now that Autodesk has a CAM product I may wait a couple years and invest there.

Would take a whole lot of support and a serious 2012sp3 to patch up CAM pretty well to keep me on board at this point. OR some serious innovation of the entire product, and serious on the CAM side. Which I simply do not see. You cannot sell a budget product with the serious innovations. It's time for ZW to pony up the good product or shut it down. Empty promises only work for newbies and will newbies..

I have little faith in 2013 but I might be surprised. I've been pleasantly surprised at least two times.

I've tried to get input on this board from users to no avail, and this tells me they simply do not know.

FT

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cutter

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Message 17 of 23

11-01-2013 12:39 . am   |   View his/her posts only
HSMWorks was my first choice for integrated CAM with Solid Edge. It is a good program. Solid Edge went with Geometric who writes Camworks so I suppose we will see CamEdge ;-) The frustration of learning another program is nothing compared to the hearburn of daily seeing your money burn up because of existing current software problems and then having to pay for that privilege on top of it.

Autodesk is putting together a complete manufacturing environment which they will own and control. The big problem is Carl Bass has stated that they intend to force everyone and all their software to the cloud. If you use software that has to operate odd the cloud you deserve all the bad things that will happen. This alone rules them out in my book no matter how good the software.

It is not just ZW users. We have probably 1200 or so SE users within a 100 mile radius here and very few ever show up at user meetings or online forums. I remember talking to Bob with VX about starting a user group here in Tennessee and he was not willing because he did not want the world to know how small the user count was here.

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chris

Junior Engineer

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Registered: 2011-5-24

Message 18 of 23

11-01-2013 12:56 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I have been using this software since 1999 and find it overall as good as or better then most. Before I used Unigraphics and Catia both had problems and things that needed a work around. I do not do production programing so maybe I have just been lucky. My programs are mostly made to produce custom parts such as electrodes and tooling both molds and dies. I also use it to program a wire edm and a laser. My needs are different then most I guess.

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Factorytuned

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Message 19 of 23

11-01-2013 01:08 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I would not even entertain cloud based manufacturing on remote host. Clent/Server in house would be fine. Web based remote no good for anyone. Cloud would have been better stillborn! If I cannot own the product then I have little use for it. Got a problem with licensing, get a better method so folks wont steal it. Cloud requires monumental amounts of band width, that does not exist in the US. Funny it does every where else around the world and I think California ;-)). That's democracy in the form of special interest. For another conversation however.

I may then look to what I had originally looked at DelCAM PowerMill. My tools use generic FANUC Posts so they are easily edited and require little to no mods. I'm in SC originally from Knox, TN.

Again, unless 2013 is really special and/or more thought is given to those who have already paid for a product that was stated to be repaired but has other issues along side the old. I stated this so many times. Customer support is paramount, forget a version every year, it looks like a ploy. I'm sure this post was not intened as a rant, but when problems go un-addressed this is what happens.

Work hard to support your customer. I'm reworded by those that I support and not missed by those I do not..

FT

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Mirko

Assistant Engineer

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Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 20 of 23

11-01-2013 08:22 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Post Last Edit by mirko72 at 2013-1-11 08:27

Hi everyone, sorry but i don't understand, to solve problems 2012 sp2 you must go to 2013 and pay,even if it supports annual cost of support? (babylon traslator)

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cutter

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Message 21 of 23

11-01-2013 08:45 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I see today ZW announces 2013. Not a word about 64 bit in the short list of new things. I thought 2013 was supposed to be at least in Beta December so I bet they have run into a ton of problems. 32 bit to 64 bit seems to be another one of those hard things to do right. Anyone know if 64 bit is in 2013?



Yes Mirko, buy 2013 to fix 2012 problems. Most CADCAM companies do this though.

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cutter

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Message 22 of 23

12-01-2013 09:46 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Factory,

Here is a link talking about Autodesks new cloud Fusion 360 thing. You don't want any part of Autodesk when they go to the cloud.

http://solidedging.wordpress.com ... ont-worry-be-happy/

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Factorytuned

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Message 23 of 23

15-01-2013 12:38 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Post Last Edit by Factorytuned at 2013-1-15 03:26

It's on all the drill AND tapping ops, that I have looked at for use.. I suspect it's on all the 2D drill type operations. A restart of CAM side may or may not open the FEED Rates dialogue evertime. Add a new drill operation from fresh and the feedrates will likely be locked. There is some other underlying issue with this because it occured on drill cycles I had previously configured as well and output code for. You can copy the feedrate from an existing setup, but not edit them.

Anyone know the reason?

It makes me wonder if Tech really actually runs the software after they patch or update it. This does not occur in 2011sp2 to my knowledge I will look into it though.

FT
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