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Trace profile ellipses.

    
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Mark

Assistant Engineer

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Registered: 2011-7-11

Message 1 of 21

 Trace profile ellipses.
02-06-2010 04:22 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I use ellipses a lot in the sketcher.
Mainly use the ready sketch ellipse as its the best for me to manipulate.
Nice to see tangency added in 14 series, thanks!.
However the Trace profile commannd 90% of the time for me ignores any intersections, even using single curve picked.

My work around to get some eliptical geometry in is to create construction for the ellipse in the sketcher, then use 3D ellipse and trim, in some of these models this is so tedious.
Can trace on Ellipses be improved?

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ChrisWard2k2

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Registered: 2011-11-22

Message 2 of 21

02-06-2010 05:36 . am   |   View his/her posts only

Hello theMIB

I just quickly tried v14.31, two intersecting ReadySketch ellipses and a square, traced perfectly. It's a good idea to blank the construction lines (filter by line font type).

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Mark

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Message 3 of 21

02-06-2010 06:00 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I tried it in 14.31 and to start with I agreed with you. However. accepted the 50 x 100 ready sketch. Drew a line, near vertical 3 degrees or so, tangent to the ellipse and the trace ignores the contact point,

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ChrisWard2k2

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Message 4 of 21

02-06-2010 06:31 . am   |   View his/her posts only

Ah, that's because it is technically not an intersection - if you pick the ellipse first (same is true with a circle), it's a closed curve so Trace will not "see" the line unless it intersects.
If you pick the line first........

Now, that's the basics but watch-out when defining lines tangent to an ellipse or other advanced curves - the first point of the line may not be on the curve at all! You will need to zoom-in tight to see this and if necessary, trim to the tangency point (yes, that will be a very tiny intersection in fact).

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Mark

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Message 5 of 21

02-06-2010 06:35 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Understand, about the advanced curves, however the tangency will be at the connecting point on the ellipse and it does not behave the same way as a circle for trace profiles in the example I described, so no solution in 14.31?

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Mike

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Message 6 of 21

02-06-2010 08:16 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Hello theMIB,

I have just tried several different scenarios and they all work. I'm sure it must be different from what you have. Can you either post a image of your sketch or send me a file? Chris is right; if all you have is the ellipse and the line and you pick the ellipse first, since it it a closed shape with no intersections, the ellipse is all you will trace.

See my attached image. I did blank the construction lines. Notice the constraints on the 3 degree line.

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Mark

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Message 7 of 21

02-06-2010 08:52 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Well it fails for me in this example, like I said it fails for me 90% of the time, here is with and withoput construction blanked

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Mike

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Message 8 of 21

02-06-2010 09:17 . am   |   View his/her posts only
OK, so mine was pretty close. How did you pick the trace? Line - Ellipse - Line ??? Make sure the construction lines are blanked.

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Mark

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Message 9 of 21

02-06-2010 09:18 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Yes, left to right

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Mike

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Message 10 of 21

02-06-2010 09:26 . am   |   View his/her posts only
So it's working?

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Mark

Assistant Engineer

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Message 11 of 21

02-06-2010 09:46 . am   |   View his/her posts only
No it is not, try to zoom in on my image

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Mike

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Message 12 of 21

02-06-2010 10:32 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Mark, Can you skype call me? Maybe we should do an on-line meeting.

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cutter

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posts: 56

Registered: 2011-11-23

Message 13 of 21

04-06-2010 03:43 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I have to admit that the lines don't just automatically join for me either. The trace profile command will not give me connected lines I can copy to the clipboard for instance until I actualy trim the bottom half of the ellipse away, blank the construction lines and then trim curves to corner where the lines meet. At that point in time I have a profile I can copy and paste. V14.3 Now I did zoom in all the way I could on these intersects and I could see no gap there at all but I still did not get a traced profile until the other steps mentioned happened. Hope I am understanding this correctly here as to the desired goal.

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Mike

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Message 14 of 21

04-06-2010 08:00 . am   |   View his/her posts only
I did an online meeting with theMIB this morning (probably afternoon for theMIB) and I do see the problem. I was using the default size Ready Sketch ellipse. The problem with the Trace Profile shows when you change the ellipse size. It can even be the same ratio. The "trace" doesn't recognize the tangent point with the lines (see the image attached to the message above from theMIB) instead going from 0-180 degrees which does not give you a closed boundary.

This has now been reported to development.

Workaround is to draw a horizontal line across the ellipse from the two tangent points. Now create the trace profile.

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 342

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 15 of 21

04-06-2010 11:42 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Hi Mike,
getting a trace to find intersections on an ellipse has been a problem for a long time.
You can go back versions and it was always problematic and like MIB says variable.
It is not limited to the RS ellipse. V14. is certainly better than any previous version though due to the tangency working.

I drew a sketch like MIB's but using a discrete second line instead of symmetry. I used the RMB tangency connection to attach the line. The trace was fine any pick order until I re dimensioned the ellipse Horz direction.
Then it's caddywonkus.
Re dimension the Vert and it's fine.

Now, if you draw a line from the ellipse then ADD the tangency you will have pick problems.

So may this not a trace problem after all - maybe it's a constraint issue?

Yes, please investigate and cure....
Cheers

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Mark

Assistant Engineer

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Registered: 2011-7-11

Message 16 of 21

20-07-2011 09:59 . am   |   View his/her posts only
This is not resolved in ZW3D.
Is it being looked at?

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Mike

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Registered: 2002-8-28

Message 17 of 21

03-08-2011 04:48 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Looks like v15 fixes this issue.

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Mark

Assistant Engineer

posts: 100

Registered: 2011-7-11

Message 18 of 21

04-08-2011 05:11 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Sorry Mike what is version is V15? if its the ZW3D release V15.00 then, no, it is NOT fixed. Use a ready sketch ellipse, it does NOT recognise a line attached tangentially to the ellipse as an intersection point in the trace profile.
Please note, my original post was JUNE 2010, some 14 months ago.

Ok, its not a show stopper, as I can use another sketch to reference this one, then make a trace from reference curves, its just very annoying.

It would also be a nice idear that if we submit pcrs, that we get a note saying,
1. definitely going to be resolved, or
2. Maybe, or
3. Probably not.

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Factorytuned

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posts: 44

Registered: 2011-12-29

Message 19 of 21

04-08-2011 04:39 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
+1 ^ on all!

We need a VA support Service Pack. Unless V15 upgrades are now free!
theMIB I run V14.7(2010 SP1) fought with it for about two days. Did not understand what was going on! Was a complex manifold inlet shape. Can't remember exactly what I did must have used another sketch to ref.. Contacted Randy it was so perplexing, I did have to reference the geometry differently now that I think about it.

Problem is how do I recall all the work arounds I have/had to do if I have a similar part 12 months from now.

Jeff
AKA - FT/Factorytuned

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Paul

Moderator

posts: 342

Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 20 of 21

05-08-2011 07:15 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
I get a little confused sometimes as y'all know.
I thought version #'s went out the window with VX.
We now use damn awkward Year and SP combos to be like some others....
IMO - Versions and decimal versions - which I am guessing are still used in house - are much easier to say and manage and refer to.

So ZW3D - what is it Versions or YYYY SPx?

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Tony_ZWSOFT

posts: 44

Registered: 2011-8-22

Message 21 of 21

06-08-2011 02:30 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Hi Paul,

YYYY SPX is the official released version number for the public, and if you would like to check what is the VX version, you also could find the information by the way shown in attached picture. Thank you.


Tony Tan
See also
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