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new pricing and other stuff

    
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cutter

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Message 1 of 16

 new pricing and other stuff
01-09-2010 05:25 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
OK I am a little confused here. In the simplification of pricing chart ZW has lumped Innovator NC, Machinist and End to End together in one category. Last time I looked there was a considerable price difference between Innovator NC and Machinist - End to End. Is this true?
The price appears to be dropping for Machinist from $8,000.00 to $7,000.00 but annual fees are staying the same, is this correct?
What will be the incentive for me to reup with ZW3DVX cad whatever considering the extreme amount of time between V14 and V15?
Where will support be based from and what that really means is do I speak to someone in Florida or are we being switched over to China and hope for the best.
Are the current VX forums going to stay here or be sent overseas?
Is the tentative release date for V15, which has been moved back by a whole bunch of time going to be early next year or later than that?
Is ZW3DVX cad whatever going to have lathe in the cam package?
Will Bob be surfing in China now and not Florida?

Adding to this list.
Is the pitifull sheet metal capabilitiy going to be fixed.
Is the capability of assembly proceedures going to be improved upon and if so how.
Will routing for piping and electrical be in the picture at some time along with a good parts library that can be loaded along with the program.

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warren

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Message 2 of 16

01-09-2010 06:10 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
I'm nervous. Unannounced license changes (like required subscriptions to keep functionality -ehem-) have a way of making it in to the small print with big changes like this. Having been a user of Unigraphics over the years I never saw improvements with customer service with the ownership changes UG went through (UGS , Siemens, EDS) and their acquisitions. VX is what I rely on for my CNC programming and hate to lose it because everything is on it and they have me by the huevos in the CNC arena.

ETA:

With the innevitable change of interfaces to match the new 'boss.' How much time do I need to devote to redoing all my old toolpaths? I suggest VX saves a heck of a lot of time devloping software to work on the and gives a perpetual license of the last released version. If you ever want to read angry users read MasterCAM posts when they scrapped the version 9 interface with MasterCAM X.

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Paul

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Message 3 of 16

01-09-2010 06:40 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
One can only hope that ZW are really keen to listen to existing users before heading off and doing their own thing with a new toy.
It would be really neat if there was some intentional dialogue with us(ers) out here via the forum.

There are definitely questions that arise that it cannot hurt to talk about them.
In one sense there is no point about me getting to concerned 'cos you'll do what you think anyway.
But aint that the point?

One of the most endearing things about VX has been the shortest connection between users and development.
I am guessing ZW could do nothing better than talking to users about options in any major changes...
Ask what if questions...
If it's confidential secret squirrel stuff, then what about selecting a cross section of users and going private.
But at least let the great unwashed know that this is taking place.
Seems to me users are the great un-used resource - and that seems paradoxical to me.

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cutter

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Message 4 of 16

01-09-2010 06:46 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
You should have a perpetual license and if you check it out I am sure this is true for you. Mine reads as a perpetual license so don't worry here, they cant take that away from you and your legacy files are alright. You just may not get tech support and no updates. RE NX, I don't know what is going on over on that side of the aisle but on the SE side we could not be happier and they are turning around completely how they regard and interact with their users. As you say though things can go downhill fast, thinking of SWX here and what Dassault is doing to them, and hoping that this will not happen here. In my opinion the best thing ZW3DVX cad or whatever it will finally be could do would be to not dribble out letters and press releases until the details are ironed out and provide those at the same time. I have to admit this brief letter today raised far more questions than it answered in my mind and about more than just the capabilities of the software. One of the nice things about VX has been a pretty consistent GUI for years now and I agree with you about changes here. Add this to my list also - what about the GUI?
My biggest fear here is like with SE where we went through two years of stuff to get to ST3 and a mature platform how buggy and how long will it takt ZW3DVX cad to get their act together? At this time I am not willing to pay to be a beta tester again. I was with SE because at the time they were the only ones besides NX that had these types of direct edit capabilities along wirth other MCAD tools I needed. It has been worth it but to do it again for a program that does not have good sheetmetal, assemby tools and many other MCAD related tools like SE does probably will not be. Time will tell what they are going to offer but the longer it takes for information to dribble out the less interested I become. Soon I will be looking at a $5,000.00 version of Cam Express that is coming out for SE users specifically and the longer ZW3DVX fiddles around the more likely it will be that I will not be back.


Beta testing has been a bit strange here anyway Paul. The beta testers for SE are doing so up to 4 months before version releases and they are spending a whole week at the SE headquarters with the developement guys there to answer questions and look at problems. As I remember VX would send a link to beta testers a few weeks ahead of time without documentation on a lot of the stuff so you couldn't use it anyway. Thinking of Mill Tactics here where they wanted you to look at something that had no instructions and give feedback on it. Won't it be a hoot if this migrates to China now?

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Robert

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Message 5 of 16

02-09-2010 04:33 . am   |   View his/her posts only
1. Pricing Changes: ZW is simplifying, rebranding and re-pricing the ZW3D product line. To better support reseller margins, ZW has decided to discontinue the Innovator Series (including Innovator NC which used to be 2D Machinist) effective immediately. We've also eliminated the 3D Machinist product. Therefore, to give VX customers a viable upgrade path, we offered all current V-14 customers using those product a free-of-charge upgrade to ZW3D Premium (essentially End-to-End) because this is the only new product that contacts machining.
2. ZW3D 2011 will benefit from a much larger Quality Assurance effort as we're now able to tap into the considerable resources of the Chinese development team.
3. Both Gene and Mike work ZWSoft America in Florida and that's where they'll stay to continue their excellent support efforts on behalf of our loyal customers.
4. Also, Jarrod is available for resellers and customers alike but he speaks with a funny, Wisconsin accent
5. We do have plans for lathe but I'm not allowed to discuss 'em here
6. I have surfed in Hong Kong (Big Wave Bay). Twice actually but it's not as good as Florida and today we're expected triple-overhead waves from Hurricane Earl... totally stoked!
7. New product additions... SMD, Assembly, piping and electrical are all now more feasible due to the much larger development staff

It's a new era and we're excited!

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Jon

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Message 6 of 16

02-09-2010 10:36 . am   |   View his/her posts only
In order to sell into a much larger market the VX user interface is going to need a lot of work done to it so that it has the same kind of polish as SolidWorks, Autodesk Inventor, Solid Edge, etc.

Will VX be getting the ZWCAD user interface?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

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warren

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Message 7 of 16

02-09-2010 10:50 . am   |   View his/her posts only
Check again on the perpetual license on the Dongle.

It expires yearly since version 12. At least the update codes for the dongle they send me. Once the date is past... No more VX.

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warren

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Message 8 of 16

02-09-2010 11:29 . am   |   View his/her posts only
After reading about ZWCAD and VX merging for the new ZW3D (or whatever it ends up being named) something occured to me.

A HUGE potential for training and consulting jobs for us current VX users. VX has very limited exposure in the US but from the looks of it ZW brags of 180,000 seats in 80 countries. That's a lot of potential new customers and who better to train then people who have been using it for years (myself since V9).

VX employees. Can a registry of users be set up? Maybe even some sort of "certification" program or "certified partner." Through the registry we could express an interest of training new users, consulting, contracting, or training. I would like to make my contractor sevices available publicly.

After feeling a bit apprehensive I'm now excited about the new opportunities out there. We're on the ground floor, guys, with worldwide demand now.

Warren

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Dave

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Message 9 of 16

02-09-2010 01:01 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Actually, with regard to user interface that Jon raises, I would like to add some thoughts. I'm not sure what "polished"means. I have used Solidworks for over 10 years. I can't speak to the other programs Jon mentioned, but Solidwork's "polished" interface leaves too many commands as optional. When you start adding the optional, useful commands, the interface becomes very crowded and quickly unpolished.

But, I do agree with Jon, VX's user interface will benefit from some majar overhaul. I like the concept of the VX interface. However, I would say it could be more intuitive and better organized, however, that would require experimentation and user feedback. I also think the interface has to reflect the work flow of the software. I think VX is very different from what ZW is used to.

Which raises another point that Bob raises, that of quality control. I don't know much about how large VX's development for software group was. And while having more people look at the code isn't a bad thing, when those people are actually software engineers and not CAD users, their effectiveness is somewhat muted. Comments on beta testers have been eloquently stated by others better than I could (thanks Cutter), but quality is very much a process thing. Beta testers in many ways are the very best quality assurance group. If the beta testers are from a widely selected group of users so every part of the program will get tested the program has a better chance of working from the start of release for the vast majority of users. However, this means the process of development and testing (utilizing actual users using the software in production) has to be such that even working in beta allows for the ability to produce finished designs (my area) or programs with a minimum of disruptions. This requires some thought with regard to the process.

Daved

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cutter

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Message 10 of 16

02-09-2010 01:05 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Warren,
In the about screen my license reads as permanant. June was when my one year maintenance was up and it still works just fine and will do so forever. What kind of a license did you get that is not permanent? I have the USB dongle if it makes a difference but I have to say the parralell port dongle I used to have read the same way. I will not buy any program that does not give me a permanant license as you never know when you may fall on hard times and not be able to renew each year. Or decide not to but still have a use for what you paid for. There have been other times when I have let maintenance lapse and this has never been a problem with my license.

Reading and thinking about the GUI here. It's kind of a mixed bag really for me with VX. I am getting to like the ribbon bar stuff with SE now especially since ST3 will allow complete customization of it. But I have used VX since V9 and I know where it all is and like the extra screen real estate available to work on parts with. I guess I just dread the soon to be introduced unneccesary time I will have to spend on yet another new interface in learning it just to get back to where I allready was and with no guarantee it will be well done. Thats if I renew and we shall see about that depending on what I see when V15 comes out and I give the trial a spin.

It will be nice when ZW decides to start giving real information out that we can actualy make decisions on.

Hey Bob, no comment on current time frames for V15?

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warren

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Message 11 of 16

02-09-2010 01:37 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Quote

Originally posted by: cutter
Warren,

In the about screen my license reads as permanant. June was when my one year maintenance was up and it still works just fine and will do so forever. What kind of a license did you get that is not permanent? I have the USB dongle if it makes a difference but I have to say the parralell port dongle I used to have read the same way. I will not buy any program that does not give me a permanant license as you never know when you may fall on hard times and not be able to renew each year. Or decide not to but still have a use for what you paid for. There have been other times when I have let maintenance lapse and this has never been a problem with my license.


"Ver: 14 Prod: 54 Expire: 06/15/2011"

Since V12 or so I have gotten time expired licenses. Much to my dismay. Either I am "special" and have this extra feature or everyone has this now. If the license agreement now requires the constant subscription every year this is the only software I know that uses such licensing and is clear abuse of long time customers. I didn't press the issue with VX because I do maintain my updates. Now maybe it is only on the USB dongles in case it is lost or stolen which would make sense but for a couple of years I didn't have to worry about it because my old license files were permanent.

So if VX abandons the current VX formats without ensuring my license is permanent, I'm screwed. I have to redo all my old data in my next CAD CAM package (before June 2011) and write it all off as one hell of a nasty trick from VX.

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Jon

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Registered: 2009-12-31

Message 12 of 16

02-09-2010 01:51 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Quote

Originally posted by: daved
Actually, with regard to user interface that Jon raises, I would like to add some thoughts. I'm not sure what "polished"means. I have used Solidworks for over 10 years. I can't speak to the other programs Jon mentioned, but Solidwork's "polished" interface leaves too many commands as optional. When you start adding the optional, useful commands, the interface becomes very crowded and quickly unpolished.



But, I do agree with Jon, VX's user interface will benefit from some majar overhaul. I like the concept of the VX interface. However, I would say it could be more intuitive and better organized, however, that would require experimentation and user feedback. I also think the interface has to reflect the work flow of the software. I think VX is very different from what ZW is used to.

Daved


Dave,

I've used SolidWorks on and off since 1996. At one point I taught an introductory course to SolidWorks. I currently use SolidWorks 2010 SP4 at work. We have maintenance and our VAR is GoEngineer. I'm very happy with the excellent support I get from GoEngineer.

I'm pretty happy with the SolidWorks user interface. I actually think it's the best thing about SolidWorks but I do agree with your comment that the SolidWorks user interface leaves too many commands as optional. To get around this limitation I put the optional commands I need in the customizable "s" key pop-up menu.

Those that I have shown VX to in the past don't like VX's interface at all. I don't think VX's user interface is as good at present as the more popular products I mentioned and I think it needs a lot of work to get there. Users of this type of software expect the kind of interface that they are accustomed to using and seeing in other products such as the ones I've named. Without having this type of user interface I feel potential new customers of ZWCAD 3D are going to show a good deal of resistance.

Also, I would not give ZWCAD very good marks in how they have approached the purchase of VX in regards to informing those active on this forum how the transition is going to work and I have a lot of questions about it. In the mean time, I see companies like Kubotek USA (KeyCreator) getting much better at marketing Direct Modeling, using Twitter and Blogs, etc. I found the following to be very funny and I feel it has the potential to be very effective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSqpEJPr25w

http://tinyurl.com/25essds



Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

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cutter

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Message 13 of 16

02-09-2010 01:56 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Don't know why yours reads that way and I would check on that. I think there is an error there. I am curious to know what you find out here so keep us posted and I would not be to hard on VX here until you find out for sure.

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Chris

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Message 14 of 16

02-09-2010 03:35 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
cncsurf - "Now maybe it is only on the USB dongles in case it is lost or stolen which would make sense"
This is partly the case. The other case for yearly licenses being that non-USB licenses are tied to the MAC address of the computer it's installed on. If a user gets a new computer or has a hardware failure the license is no longer good since the MAC address is different. This allow us to issue a new license and the old license is deprecated.

I'd suggest to email Mike Lynch (mjl@vx.com) and ask him to go through the proper channels to get your USB dongle made into a permanent license (Sorry Mike ). That way you have an official request to do so.

Keep in mind I'm just the web developer and have no jurisdiction whatsoever in this area. Just trying to point you in the right direction to make you a happy customer.

Cutter, the only question I can answer of your original bunch is this one - "Are the current VX forums going to stay here or be sent overseas?

The forums will stay as they are just some minor rebranding to our new ZW namesake. The new ZW3D website is being finished and should be live soon and it will replace the current vx.com site.

I think Bob covered most of the others.

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Paul

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Registered: 2011-9-17

Message 15 of 16

02-09-2010 04:02 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
Hi Warren,
regardless of the actual date of the access code expire I believe you have an enduring license to use the software.
The agreement says it's yours to use (without time limitation) unless there is a breach of the agreement which you are unwilling or unable to remedy to the satisfaction of VX. I am not sure how they would actually pull that off or if they ever have.

5. Term. The license granted herein will continue until it is terminated in accordance with this Article 5. VX may terminate the license granted herein immediately upon written notice to you (i)for justified cause, including without limitation breach of any provision of Article 2 or 3 of this Agreement, or (ii) if you breach any provision of this Agreement and fail to cure such breach within fifteen (15) days of notice thereof. Upon the termination of the license, you will promptly return to VX or destroy all copies of the Software and Documentation covered by the license as instructed by VX. The provisions of Articles 2, 3, 5, 7 and 10 of this Agreement shall survive any termination of this Agreement.
Cheers

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warren

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Message 16 of 16

02-09-2010 04:58 . pm   |   View his/her posts only
As for my license having time limits I'm not going to be overly concerned. I have a feeling a lot of things will be changing and you guys are busy enough out there. I would also think eventually we'll all be receiving a shiny new box sporting the new ZW3D graphics and related hardcopies of CDs etc... Maybe new dongles. We'll see what happens...
See also
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